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Anglian Windows: Sales Tactics: Part Two

March 29th, 2004

This article follows on from the hugely popular Anglian Windows: Sales Tactics post.

Have you had any good/bad experiences with UK double glazing companies?

Please comment on your good and bad experiences with Anglian Windows, Zenith Windows, Coldseal, Everest and indeed any other double glazing sales company. Comments on this post may be edited for legal reasons. Any comments threatening violence to any company or person will be deleted and the person posting the comments will be banned from posting again. All opinions on this post reflect the individual authors are may not represent the opinions of the author of this site.

Please also note that the sales and construction aspects of double glazing are often dealt with by two entirely different teams. Just because you have dealt with a bad salesman it doesn’t automatically mean that the product is bad and vice versa. So, I’m interested in hearing any of your comments on both the sales technique/customer care and you impression of the product itself.

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428 Responses to “Anglian Windows: Sales Tactics: Part Two”

  1. Tank

    who make the best quality windows & why?

  2. ann

    DON’T BUY WEATHERSEAL!!! We had all the usual hassle with pushy sales rep (silly over-acted phonecalls ‘to his boss’ to laugh at our desire for a better price)and promises that their windows used extra steel supports installed into the wall etc, not just brick ties (that was a lie). The following are just a few examples of the fiasco we had…

    1]Two rooms had windows where the inner decoratives panes were at different heights to the main unit (big main area’s decorative panes didn’t line up with smaller side opening areas)

    2]Bay window had side openings that opened out in the same direction instead of both opening out symmetrically, handle back to front.

    3]Bathroom window wouldn’t close properly but didn’t discover this until a windy night a few weeks later.

    4]Front door didn’t have the inner panes as ordered.

    5]Bay window left in garden in the snow over Christmas until new side opening came a month or so later. Then they removed old bay window and the roof over that bit nearly caved in. They had to rush off to a plant hire shop to get a prop to support it but any damage is probably already done now.

    I held back �1000 (I was feeling weak) from the �7500 (�14,000 was first quote). Anyway, I should have held back a lot more until the work was finished properly.

    Also the sales rep said the wood surrounds would be moulded ones to match skirtings and door surrounds in our house…they’re not. Plus my husband kept an eagle eye when they came back to do bay windoiw and there were no steel supports going on, just brick ties and loads of filler. Trading standards friend said there’s not much we can do there because brick ties are the norm, they’re not sub-standard…but part of the reason we chose these liars is because they made out they had some super strong support system for their windows…it was all lies.
    Lawyers wrote to them but we just got some totally illiterate crap back from the ‘man at the top’, peckham, pecker, something like that. Just gave up but kept �1000. Now within a year the door won’t close properly. But when i phoned and said I’d never got a guarantee they insisted we did…if we had we would certainly have remembered that. How could they have sent us a guarantee at Christmas when the job wasn’t finished until March and we were in the midst of legal wranglings with them? Anyway if we want one we’ll have to pay �25 for it. Have phoned again about door (without mentioning guarantee) and someone was meant to come two Saturdays ago..no show. Someone may come tomorrow but they can’t say when. It’s a nightmare trying to get through on the phone too. Have been trying all morning. DON’T USE THEM…I’m getting a migraine just thinking about them…

  3. Mark Cathersides

    I am about to buy Anglian windows, one 6 pane bay window, one 5 pane bay window and a corner 3 pane window for £4700. Seems ok tome, don’t know other opinions. They run a promotion stating that if you can find the same quailty windows for cheaper they will give you the windows for free. Has anyone investigated this further or is this simply to fluff you up a bit???????????

  4. Gil Jaysmith

    Tonight we sat through a four-hour presentation by someone from Zenith Windows, at the end of which he quoted us five thousand for French doors and two kitchen windows. After a rigmarole concerning a Show Home magazine he discounted this to £3,500. My wife mentioned that in initial phone contacts they had mentioned a potential discount of 60%. He went through another rigmarole involving a call to his manager, who was “shocked” to hear that so large a discount had somehow been implied to us over the phone, but by way of apology to us they were willing, at great personal risk, to give us a further discount, bringing the total up to about 60%, and giving a final price of about two grand.

    We didn’t accept because we don’t like haggling and we don’t like this kind of rigmarole. What I don’t understand is: why can the company not sell the same product for the same price? Why does the company try to make us pay three grand more than they’re obviously willing to sell the product for? Why, in short, is our economy founded on this kind of bullshit? I’m sure I’ll attract a few criticisms of naivety and so forth, but I’ve never been any good at haggling because my mind just isn’t set in that kind of groove. If a company has a price, why can’t it just say what that price is?

    Apparently this is too complicated for Zenith, so we won’t be buying from them. If they’d said, “It’ll be two grand, which is more than you’ve heard from other companies, but we’re national and it’s a better product, here’s the number, give us a ring if you want it,” then we’d’ve thought it through, gotten other quotes, and might well have given them a ring. Perhaps some people do just buy the cheapest but we honestly give a toss about quality and are willing to pay for it. Instead, Zenith’s product has been tainted in our minds by the stink of possibly quite legal but to our minds utterly pointless sales shenanigans.

    As for whether we deliberately wasted the salesman’s time by agreeing to hear him out with the intention of saying no at the end – well, nothing we heard over the phone from Zenith prepared us for a four-hour presentation about how they sell the Rolls-Royce of double-glazing. We thought someone was going to come and measure the windows, y’know? When someone offers to sell us something we *expect* it to be up to scratch. Lecturing us for hours about quality is no proof thereof. The moment there’s any kind of horseplay in a presentation, I stop trusting any of it.

    I can’t help thinking that this whole salesman business needs rethinking… anyway, in the meantime we’re off to get quotes from other companies. And anyone who shows up with a four-hour glint in his eye will be politely asked to keep it short.

    If this situation has evolved because salesmen don’t trust customers because customers don’t trust salesmen, then it’s all gone horribly wrong, hasn’t it?

    Ah well…

  5. jeje

    I would like an explanation if any is possible on the following story
    We had an appointemnent yesterday at 4 pm with a representative from Weatherseal, the presentation lasted for about 2 hours, all I wanted was a quote for 14 windows , then it came down to the price, we had 2 pricing one valid for a year the other one if we bought on the night.
    the price valid for a year was around £20 000
    the price for the day started at around £12000
    then your representative phoned his manager in High Wycombe (Mr Robinson) the price came down to around £8500, we said no then while he was packing his things, he phoned his manager again the price came down to £5000, we had to confirm this with Mr Robinson within 1/2 hour, which we did only to find to our surpride that the offer was not valid anymore.
    I would like to know if this happenend to somebody else or if I can get a logical explaination
    thanx in advance
    oh and next saturday we are having a marketeer from safestyle any comment?
    thanx

  6. Basher

    You have experienced drop closing, this is a selling method which is designed to confuse the brain, do not worry, every one can fall for it.
    It works like this; during the presentation the presenter will give you large numbers, for example he may say ten thousand five hundred, just out of the blue, you think, bloody hell, that’s a lot of money, but he is referring to his car mileage, what he has done is price condition you, you now think your 5 windows are going cost this amount, your brain has been conditioned.
    The sales person can now proceed to drop close, he may say the price is for your 5 window is: £6500.00, wow you feel good, because this is less then the price condition figure of £10500.00, your brain is relaxed and ready to buy, you have got a bargain! At this stage elderly people will accept the price and sign the contract, fantastic, the sales person has earned full commission, probably £1300.00. Younger people will haggle and try for a better price, 5 windows at average price of £450.00 each is £2250.00 fully fitted, so the sales person can now drop close you, he will ring his manager, who will give you once only, to make the sales figures up, price of another 50% off, bloody fantastic!! For £3250.00. You have been stitched you have over paid by at least £1000.00, but your brain has said you have a bargain!! The best thing to do is cancel the contract within 7 days, go to a local company and buy at the right price of £2550.00
    You are not gullible it is the way the brain is designed, to make decisions

    Allow thinking time, ask the rep to give you call in 10 days, the fantastic deal is offered to all the reps customers

  7. Basher

    Easy calculation: add up your windows then times by £450.00, this the buying and selling price for top quality windows

  8. Basher

    14 windows at £450 each = £6300. do not pay any more

  9. Basher

    The £5000 offered would not be accepted by the company surveyor, this was offered to make life difficult for other people quoting, it is known as kill the the deal for everyone else.
    What some companies do, is leave your deal in the office for 6 weeks then they do a survey, then they leave it for another 6 weeks, then they ask you for more money because it is under priced. dont fall for this trick!!

  10. jeje

    hi basher,

    thanks for your comments, very helpful, do you know anything about Zenith or Safestyle, or could you recommend a company im berkshire?
    Once again thx for your advice

    Cordially

    Jeje

  11. dmodewill

    I hope you guys dont mind, but I thoiught I would give you all a bit of feedbcak about Coldseal Windows and their installation on my property yesterday. I feel quite disgusted, at myself, as well as them for not looking at the web for a site like this to get the info I needed 3 months ago.

    Anyway, here’s the problem list:
    heaps of mess left untidied/removed
    brick and rubble left on/inside bedding
    lengths of pvc strip under the beds
    cables outside the house left running loose
    tiling in bathroom broken and not replaced
    Silicone on walls, radiators and floorings
    Dust everywhere.
    Only 55% of the panes fitted did not have some major defect (45% had bits inside, scratches, indelible marks)
    Broken window shutters
    Broken window board
    Curtain tie backs ripped off the wall with the screw body still inside
    Brick work shattered outside
    Badly re-pointed brick work
    Wood from old windows left outside
    Wrapping from new window left outside, and under the beds, of course!
    When I refused to pay, I went through a very lengthy conservation with the fitters and then, the area manager (Darren Linihan, 01252 377437), who eventually came to visit us at 7.30pm last night. After having the police round, we would not pay, they then removed the windows on the first floor, and said they would board them up unless we paid. They then got boards out and began to cut them up to the window size: we then had to relent.

    I could of held back 12% of the balance, however, they wouldn’t accept a personal cheque at that time-, but as I could get a new bankers draft at that time of night (for the reduced amount) that was not feasible anyway. Of course he didn’t have a cheque book to give me change for my bankers draft of £3500!!!!

    Both my partner and I spent the night cleaning up and are very upset.

    Coldseal did promise to send someone round to replace the 45% of the panes and fit all other bits agreed on at 12pm today…..still no sign…… and they wont answer their phones.

    Can anyone help?

    Dmodewill

  12. Dino

    Anglian windows offer a substantial price reduction if you opt for their Gold Promotion / Account scheme – signing up for 10 years of repayments at 20% APR.
    If you pay up before the 10 years you are liable to the full price before this discount.
    Salesman tells you they rarely ever invoke that clause as long as you pay off over 15 months – say, and gives you the breakdown – and you still save about 50% of that particular discount.
    Is it worth the risk ?

  13. hello

    i work for a company called crystal, we are the biggest independant company in the southeast and we didnt get that from bulying we basically leave a price and 9/10 times people come back. i spose it is good to get a few quotes but really one quote from weatherseal and one from everest would be pointess as they all belong to the same company-the wetherseal group as does supremo-glaze. same with bryco and coldseal now called the coldseal group.
    for a competitive quote please call 0208 2521593 and i am sure we can help ya out lol

  14. jeje

    Hi

    After all the nonsense and from weatherseal, everest, safestyle, we got a local company top give us a quote.
    It was brilliant, just what we needed, company been going for 15 yrs, back up by an insurance from lloyds in case of bankruptcy, no nonsense just facts, and measurement, and then, yeah unbelievable one price valid for more than one day, I have to say that the saleman from that local co knew all of his collegues from the big 4, he had been 15 yrs in this industry.
    I would like all the big 4 salesman to learn from this be honest, do not drop your price by 800%, then you might sounds credible.
    Basher, thanks for all your advice the final bill came to £5000.
    If any body needs a good co in the hants and berks area, let me know
    Regards

  15. Steve

    Hi,

    VERY briefly, I have had windows & doors installed by Anglian. They started in January and there are still problems. I have been dealing with the Stockport office and find they just keep covering for each other. Who is the best person/s to write to? I can provide full details of complaints if required but they are lengthy.

    Thanks

    Steve.

  16. Mark

    Hi all,

    Just a quick thanks to everyone who has posted so far, I am looking to get a conservatory built and have Anglain rep coming round tonight again to discuss prices, and I am now armed with Anglian discount structure so should be an interesting discussion!

    My main reason for posting however is to ask if anyone can recommend a ‘local’ firm who can build a conservatory in SW London area (Twickenham).

    Preferably to the plans already drawn up by Anglian.

    If so please let me know.

    Thanks

    Mark

  17. tokat

    Hi steve

    have you paid the full amount yet???

    if not dont the top man will soon get in touch!!

    dont be bullied into paying either you only have to pay upon completion (section 18 of contract) if you have problems then it is not complete.

    If you have paid in full make copies of complaints and letters etc. send one to head office in norwich, one to your office (let them know youve sent one to norwich and keep copies for yourself.

    hope this helps

  18. Babs

    Re conservatories
    Survey done, and we might have a well under our patio! Oddly though they did not dig up the patio before sending us a letter stating that we had a well. Our salesman finds this a bit strange so is investigating this. He thinks Anglian may have sent us the wrong letter. We pointed out to them that we had the right to cancel the contract and get the deposit back if extra costs were involved. However, Anglian have agreed to cover the costs of any extra foundation work that may need to be done to sort out the problem. So far so good!
    Onwards to the Planning Application!

  19. HACKED OFF

    Anglian Windows are a 4 letter word in my house. We should have known better when the salesman turned up an hour late but we were niaive. Having listened to him for hours on end we unfortunately caved in to the “oh let’s sign to get him out” trick. We were sucked in by the must sign today for the finance as it is being withdrawn trick. We were also stupid enough to believe the patter of the finance deal. We were told the loan was for 5 years and that the APR was really good. The paperwork was done but subsequently needed to be re-done as we decided to pay a substantial deposit. The representative came back at 9.30pm which we signed and which turned out to be on different terms to those we discussed. When we tried to complain the answer from the sales representative was “well I never mention 10 years because everyone always wants to pay it off quicker”.

    That is only the tip of the iceberg. I had 12 windows and 2 doors fitted (well I say fitted, a child of 10 could have done a better job). I ended up having to have the front door replaced completely, the back door re-fitted. 5 new sealed glass units as the others were damaged. 4 windows taken out and re-fitted. And at my expense 2 new internal windowseals as the fitters damaged the old ones so badly and a new tiled bathroom windowcill as they broke the other one. I am still waiting for one glass unit to be changed. NEVER AGAIN!!

  20. phil

    I am wanting to cancel a Weatherseal ‘non-cancellable purchase contract’ i signed 2 days ago – and reading on the back of it it says i have the right to cancel if we did not directly approach weatherseal. In fact we didn’t – they got our lead from the ‘windowqouter’ website.

    Does anyone have any experience of cancelling such ‘non-cancellable’ contracts. I expect they will try and tell us we are not within our rights to do this — but i am sure that we comply with the condition that we did not directly approach weatherseal, as we were referred on to them via an independant web site service.

    Just wanting out and could do with some confidence to arm me before they get nasty with this.

  21. tokat

    phill

    as far as i know everyone has a right to cancell. some companies will chatge a fee to cover administration but that is by the by. if you have paid a deposit hopefully cheque cancell that now!

    put your cancellation in writing and send to local office and head office keep a copy for yourself.

    most importantly act quickly!

    good luck

  22. tokat

    phill

    as far as i know everyone has a right to cancell. some companies will chatge a fee to cover administration but that is by the by. if you have paid a deposit hopefully cheque cancell that now!

    put your cancellation in writing and send to local office and head office keep a copy for yourself.

    most importantly act quickly!

    good luck

  23. tokat

    Hi all

    Does anybody know of any organisations or companies that i can get to come and gice me independant assessments of the work i have had done by anglian???

    I feel a bit cheeky asking other dbl glazing companies I dont even know if they would do this!!

    It seems at mo im banging my head against brick wall ( not very well built one seeing its anglian!!!)

    would love help and advice

    pleeeaassseee

  24. fiona

    Could someone explain this one, please? We received a quote from Anglian Windows which was far too high. We said “no, thank you”. A few days later we received a call from their ‘trade’ department, who came round and quoted us a lot less. After much haggling, the ‘trade’ department has now come down to the lowest price we have received.

    Is the ‘trade’ department really any different? Are the windows any different? Is this another little tactic?

    Oh, and in reply to the guy on the first page who asked what other material good we have ‘to sleep on’ before we buy: I have never bought anything worth more than twenty quid without shopping around; if I’m going to spend more money (the hundreds or thousands) of course I’ll research the deal carefully and give myself ample time to make sure I really do want this before I fritter away our savings on it.

    And to the guy who gets annoyed at customers for saying they can only spend £3000 on windows when they have 20k in the bank: this is called budgeting.

  25. phil

    Hi Fiona

    read this discussion thread for details about anglian tradelines…

    http://www.double-glazing-web.info/post.php?cat=2&fid=1&pid=322&page=1

    Seems they are passing on the customer to their other related company Anglian building products – a company who aims at new build/commercial market, but who pick up some of the potential lost enquiries from the main Anglian company. I believe they install a slightly different and cheaper product. I don’t know enough to say whether it meets up to all the necessary standards you’ll be looking for — i know the windows are only 60mm and are externally glazed.

    There is a link to the anglian building products web site form Anglian’s web site – click on the “Commercial” link in the navigation bar.

    Hope this helps you.

    Cheers,

    Phil

  26. phil

    hi tokat

    thanks for the advice about cancelling my contract.

    i’ve sent in the cancellation using the form provided and address provided on the back of the contract. i haven’t cancelled with the local branch — i don’t even know which branch it was!! i’ve also cancelled the finance agreement using the form provided on that too. someone told me that simply cancelling the finance agreement results in cancellation of the purchase contract with the vendor — i’m not sure if this is true or not.

    i’ll certainly try and cancel the cheque too.

    i’m now awaiting inevitable phone calls…

    Cheers,

    Phil

  27. John

    Message for JeJe. The Weatherseal manager never intended to let you have it at £5000 ,he was just testing your resolve on your stubborness to buy on yhe night. He would never have beeen able to commit to such a low price. Safe style are the worst of the lot even though the price is cheaper than most , the quality isn’t good and they are known to use windows as a way of laundering money for illegal activities.

  28. ann

    Re Hello’s message on April 19, I don’t think Weatherseal and Everest are connected anymore, and from what I can gather from the Everest rep who lives in our village, they’re well pleased to be rid of any Weatherseal connection. Just wish we could have afforded Everest as I’ve only ever heard good reports about them.

  29. emma

    ANGIAN !!! had a rep yesterday and my husband got quite close to assaulting him. When we told him that his price was ridiculous he became offensive and personal. He ran down the other comany from whom we have had a quote and were very hapy with and did the usually slander the opposition trick.

    I was phycically ill when he left. Ladies…be very wary of allowing an Anglian rep in your house. AND do not bother with their pricing.They quoted 17K as their very best figure…when all our other quotes ranged from 6K-11.5K.

  30. ems

    In answer to many questions about pricing policy, I can spill an industry secret. A typical rep will be on 15% commission. However for every pound over the “price” he sells it for ( known as overs ) he will get 25%.

    so heres how it works::: real bottom price = 5K.
    his first quote 12K
    final quote after haggling 8K.

    His commission will be 15% on the 5K PLUS 25% on 3K overs .

    In total the sales man would make approx £750 commission on the sale PLUS £750 on the “overs”

    Makes sense now doesn’t it?

  31. Fred In A Shed

    I think maybe I will try some of these tactics when I buy my next brand new car. I know that most new cars don’t cost £10,000+ to make. Maybe I should go to a dealership and try and haggle them down to £2500 from £10,000. i.e cost price.
    Because I’m sure the salesman would take me seriously…..NOT!

  32. B&Q BOB

    How much are bricks these days? We charge about 35p per red brick. So if you have a £200,000 house you should have about 571428 bricks. Hope you all live in castles at 35p per brick or maybe if you have just bought a newly built house you should think about selling because you’ve just payed around £10 per brick.
    Does anyone get where I’m coming from?

  33. jeje

    hi everybody,

    Just a quick update, after having suffered Weatherseal, and Co, I decided to go with a local co, I am please to say that eveything is going ok so far, no bathroom tile broken, no windows missing no mess, nothing to complain about, i recommend most customer to gat a local quote as well, worth it

  34. Aashi

    Hello everyone,
    I have just had an interview as a sales consultant today and have got the job. Please can I get honest opinions about Anglian from any employees who already work there, mostly in the sales side of things.

  35. Babs

    Re Conservatory
    Well now thoroughly fed up! Was told we may have a well. Contract extended by one month whilst Anglian investigated.
    Got back from holiday to find letter saying we did have well. However, no evidence of digging. Have dealt with 3x changes of salesman so far. So much for the promise of one contact person.

    Latest is that Anglian (through Salesman no)agreed verbally to cover costs of extra foundation work if needed. This resulted in an unrequested visit from salesman number 1 who was, naturally, worried about loss of commission.

    A week passes and no letter is forthcoming.

    Got home yesterday to find a call from Salesman number 4 who has said he is sending us a letter.

    Incidentally, the contract extension ran out on 28 March.

    Have now spoken to them and letter being faxed confirming that they will cover the costs of any foundation work. This apparently extends the contract as they are still coming within the original agreed quotation.

    I think that, technically, we can get out and get our deposit back at this stage as we have not agreed to an extensionn of contract. My confidence in Anglian has been shaken by all this and they still haven’t dug anything!

  36. Babs

    Right, have received the letter and it is standard acceptance of contract letter. This is NOT what I expected. I have asked the Admin Dept in Norwich to apologise for the inconvenience caused to date AND to confirm in writing that they will cover the costs of any additional foundation work. I have asked for this letter by end of today.

    Can anyone tell me if we can get the deposit back if we cancel at this stage as we have not agreed to an extension of contract at this stage.
    Advice needed urgently!

  37. Betti

    I recognise everything anyone here has said about Anglian. The hard sell, the putting down cometitive companies (‘They’re about to go into liquidation…’ – he even produced web print-outs to prove it!’), the patronising attitude and making you feel like you’re an idiot if you say no and show him the door… I did fall for their tactics the first time round and also have to admit that there’s nothing wrong with the windows themselves, and even the workmen who installed them were Ok, tidy, courteous etc.
    Afterwards I was hounded by Anglian salespeople for the next three years, calling me several time a month and trying to flog me more windows, doors, conservatories, you name it… That’s when I started to get really hacked off with them.
    Now, I do actually need some more windows, but since Anglian had managed to put me off them with there annoying salespeople I started to do some research. There is a National Replacement Windows Advisory Service (website http://www.nrwas.org). On their website I read about all the sales tricks described here – it was only then that I realised I’d been had… But the good news is: they offer a free service where they send someone round who gets different quotes on your behalf without giving your details to anyone and you can pick the best quote and get the job done. No salespeople involved. It’s a government-funded service and doesn’t cost you a penny (well, apart from your taxes of course). Worth checking out.

  38. Betti

    I recognise everything anyone here has said about Anglian. The hard sell, the putting down competitive companies (‘They’re about to go into liquidation…’ – he even produced web print-outs to prove it!), the patronising attitude and making you feel like you’re an idiot if you say no and show him the door… I did fall for their tactics the first time round and also have to admit that there’s nothing wrong with the windows themselves, and even the workmen who installed them were Ok, tidy, courteous etc.
    Afterwards I was hounded by Anglian salespeople for the next three years, calling me several time a month and trying to flog me more windows, doors, conservatories, you name it… That’s when I started to get really hacked off with them.
    Now, I do actually need some more windows, but since Anglian had managed to put me off them with their annoying salespeople I started to do some research. There is a National Replacement Windows Advisory Service (website http://www.nrwas.org). On their website I read about all the sales tricks described here – it was only then that I realised I’d been had… But the good news is: they offer a free service where they send someone round who gets different quotes on your behalf without giving your details to anyone and you can pick the best quote and get the job done. No salespeople involved. It’s a government-funded service and doesn’t cost you a penny (well, apart from your taxes of course). Worth checking out.

  39. TOG Diver

    Anglian Windows….
    Ordered 2 months ago after 3 quotes, 1 local and another multi national, 2 quotes in the ball park based on £400 per window, 8 windows in total. Local company & Anglian within £300 of each other. The other company started at 3 x the price, usual rubbish and ended up within £500 of the ball park.
    Anglian chosen on quality, they came today at 7:30 am started fitting just after 8 am, finished at 2:30 pm. Great job well done.I can only say as I find and I’m well pleased with Anglian Windows.
    South Yorkshire area

  40. Babs

    Conservatory.
    Well, now 2 working days have passed and we STILL do not have written confirmation from Anglian re covering extra costs. I have nagged them today.
    So far this has caused us a lot of personal time and effort and they still have not stuck a spade into the ground.
    My advice to anyone considering Anglian at this point is please do not touch them – if this is their level of customer service before they even start a job then how can I trust them to get on with it properly?

  41. Babs

    Letters now received confirming they will cover costs. It only took them 1.5 weeks to send them!! So, going ahead as we would have difficulty getting our deposit back now.

  42. Ian

    Thank the lord it’s not just me having problems with Anglian.

    I think they have tried every tactic under the sun the get more money, do a bad job and generally give themselves a bad name and me a headache!

    My scenario: Conservatory.
    Everything was going well the price was excellent without having any pushy sales man.(Try ordering your conservatory using the northern offices if you live in the south! See what price difference you can get.) This obviously was picked up by head office who came up with a list of reasons for charging an extra £3k restricted site access, extra brickwork, extra foundations!?! This was after the surveyor had come round and I had agreed that the price and specs were correct.

    Then we came to the installation/building. These guys couldn’t organise anything. Builders not turning up, fitters being given the wrong address and best of all the conservatory not fitting together correctly!!!!! I agreed to a set of drawings (by the way I am a design/development engineer) and the conservatory is manufactured to another so the roof panels don’t fit. To cut a long story short new panels made in wrong glass, new panels remade and dropped before getting on the truck, fitters not arriving, generally the organisation especially at the luton depot is terrible and allegedly it’s all my fault for not being there after the time they agreed to arrive.

    Sorry to rant but it’s now 9 weeks and the damn thing still has temporary panels and I feel a legal battle coming – by the way I still have 80% of the cost sat in my bank account, always make sure you don’t pay before completion!

  43. Babs

    Ian
    Thanks for posting! Please keep reporting on progress (or lack of). I don’t expect Anglian to start on our job until August at the earliest at this rate. At least they have agreed to pay any extra costs however if our foundations prove difficut- and this is in writing now!

  44. Paul

    Re: Weatherseal Windows (Pride of the Nation!)

    After visiting The Ideal Home Exhibition, I signed a contract for £11,000 on 25th March with Weatherseal for 24 windows to be installed within 4 weeks. Since then I have had 4 site visits (including two technical surveys), a price increase of £4,000 (although this does include 3 extra windows), a revised installation date of 7th June (11 weeks after initial contract) interminable arguments with salesmen, admin staff, directors, contract managers, receptionists and customer relations staff. To cap it all, last week I had a telephone call from Weatherseal Customer Care Department asking me if I was happy with the windows that they had recently installed. When I explained that I was very unhappy because the windows would not be fitted for another month, the telephone line went dead! I have been given all sorts of excuses. Letters lost in the post, salesmen rushed into hospital, clerical errors, communication breakdowns, job demarcation, staff leaving, too many orders for windows from the Ideal Home show, lack of technical expertise by sales staff, human error, etc. I will let you know if the windows ever get installed and also what is wrong with them once they are fitted!

  45. insider

    I have read the above comments. I agree even though I am one of those “Salesmen”. I work for Anglian, but I don`t do the hard sell.I do give 2 prices one for when ever on for the night/ within a couple of days. I am happy to leave without a signed deal for you will be a spending a lot of money and if I were in your place 1. I would not impulse buy 2. I would want to think it over. I don`t earn big money from Anglian because I dont do the hard sell. If I did I may sell more, but I would not be happy with how I got the deal. I am looking to set my self up in the business and sell the nice way, but I will have to sell a lot more for Anglian to get the set up money. This month I took orders for approximatly £70K my commision was £1700.00 as self employed for a 7 day week. But it is my choice, I worked in the offshore financial markets in Kuwait before returning to UK last year during the war, as business was poor and life expectancy was variable and my proffesional licence is only valid outside UK.

    Happy glazing purchase and Anglian is the best, not Everest !!

  46. Ross

    Hi, this is just what I have been looking for!

    I got a price from Everest for 4 windows, front door and french Doors of £7,500 (down from ‘List Price’ of £11k)…though I am calling the Salesman tonight to find out their best price (I didnt give them my phone number!)

    I am also waiting for a call back from Anglian for a comparative quote – I was expecting the total cost to be around £4,500. Am i being unreasonable?

    Has anyone had experience with either Everest or Anglian in the Burnham, Buck area? i’m not maid of money but would rather pay a little more to have a job done right first time without weeks of grief sorting problems out!

    Thanks,

    Ross

  47. Ross

    Hi, this site is just what I have been looking for!

    I got a price from Everest for 4 windows, front door and French Doors of £7,500 (down from ‘List Price’ of £11k)…though I am calling the Salesman tonight to find out their best price (I didnt give them my phone number!)

    I am also waiting for a call back from Anglian for a comparative quote – I was expecting the total cost to be around £4,500. Am I being unreasonable?

    Has anyone had experience with either Everest or Anglian in the Burnham, Bucks area? I’m not made of money but would rather pay a little more to have a job done right first time without weeks of grief sorting problems out!

    Thanks,

    Ross

  48. kosandan

    No-one seems to mention Staybrite / Zenith windows very much here.

    I had 6 basic windows and 2 doors fitted for £5845 recently and I remember the sales guy was very relaxed and didn’t seem bothered whether we took the order or not, he was just content if we understood that they make the best windows and doors available, albeit slightly more expensive than the competition.

    The installation was very professional and the guys made sure the place was clean and tidy when they left and showed us how everything worked, apparently it’s in their contract that they don’t get a bonus if anyone complins about not matter who it is (i.e. even your neighbours!).

    I’m happy that our windows look the best in our street cos we’ve got no unsightly black gasket around our windows and the security is second to none.

    I’d thoroughly recommend people to at least have a demonstration of their product prior to committing to any other company just to make your mind up. As for phone calls, I know I can speak to my branch manager directly if we have a problem, and he will sort it personally.

    I think they’re not mentioned very much here because everyone has been delighted with the service.

    So say i.

    Dagga Dan,
    Notts.

  49. Basher

    Ross: 4 windows at £450 each, front door at £700, French doors at around £1200 all in white, for woodgrain add 25%

  50. mike freeman

    it seems that you cannot trust any of these companies. -we had a terrible time with everest both from sales techniques , demanding money for inferior work,and shoddy workmanship. trying to complain to their office is not worth the attempt. i eventually had good frames made by a local firm and fitted by a local builder. A good job done at a fraction of the cost.

  51. me

    Hi, I was wundering is safe style uk are any good, and should i canvas for them, during the summer month before going to college???

  52. John B

    Can anyone tell me if fully removing the box frames of sash windows is important to the installation of new PVC windows?

    The sash windows in my flat are knackered and I can’t afford to replace like with like. We are going for a mixture of tilt and turn, casement and reversible windows.

    One salesman who visited (the anglian rep) made a big play about ‘Full Box Sash Removal’ – is this crucial to sound windows?

    I ask because the next salesman (a local firm)didn’t even mention it – and I think we are going with the latter.

  53. Fred06

    Hey, just wanted to say that me and a couple of my friends unfortunatly work for one of these “great” upvc window companies. Just to let you know that we are all kinnda sorry that we have to pester you etc. Most of the people who work for the company that I do are mostly students (struggling with student debt etc.)So when we are badgering you for a “free no obligation quate” please remember that we are human beings, its just that most of us dont have the time to find more secure jobs because we are in university 85% of our lifes striving hard to make this country a meritocracy. I dont know where I am really going here, just wanted to say sorry pnlicly for all the annoying calls I have to make. My appologies again (I finish uni in 2 weeks so I will be free from the company, so dont worry one more tele-canvaser will be gone) Hope you all dont get too botherd by us. :)

  54. DINER

    RE:HELLO HI I HAD CRYSTAL WINDOWS DO A FITTIN GLAST YEAR AND THE JOB IS SECOND TO NONE I AM NOW LOOKING FOR SOME FRENCH DRS HELLO IF YOU CAN CONTACT ME I AM CONTRACT NUMBER 245443 THANX AND WE CAN TALK BUSINESS

  55. Max

    As an inside man of the afforementioned company, I would like to try and set a few of the doubts, concerns and complaints to rest (too many issues to set them all!!!). Hope you can be open-minded whilst reading.

    1. Finance. Fact : With First National (finance company), Anglan offer a true discount for finance. This price is available on acceptance and WILL be increased if a customer chooses to pay by an alternative method. This reduction is permanent and WILL NOT be removed if a customer chooses to settle their loan early!

    2. Anglian DO have a commertial company also. They are used mainly for contract work though occasionally will be offered to potential customers. This product is very high quality and will match most competitors products, feature for feature, equally. HOWEVER, it is MUCH lower in quality and features, to their main product range.

    3. There are THREE companies that will time and time be complained about. Why??? Simple. They are the BIGGEST three in the industry – hence have more customers than anyone else. Product complaints from any company are an innevitable fact, these three keep geting mentioned purely because of the amount of work carried out. What you should be looking at is what percent of jobs go wrong, and these three most likely have a lower percent than all others!

    4. There are three main catagories of d/g companies. National/Local/one man bands. Prices will reduce in each, however quality, backups and worthwhile guarantees usually will also. If you want cheap d/g, dont go to your big guys! If you want something better, you have to pay for it.

    5. I have always felt that the general public have always been unfair towards the reps. Sure, you want the best deal, but compare their job to yours esp if you’re in sales of ANY kind. How would it be if all your customers bought thier goods from you at cost price? How long would you have an income for? Many of the reps rely on their bonuses to feed their own families (as does everyone). Do you really hate them for just trying to earn a living?? 90% of people who say “We’ll let you know” DONT. Sure, maybe 1 or 2 exceptions, but hey. If d/g was sold that way, the rep would be lucky to get 1 deal a month. I promise – there is not THAT much money in a deal. When a rep phones his boss, all they are normally doing is politely giving away their bonus. Cheers to all you that done that!!!

    6. Dont mean to bitch, but its not exactly a glamourous job, most of us just want to end the week having made more than we spent. Would just be nice if you all could see it a little from the other side.

    If wanted – only if, will try and give you any advice or answers on general queries. Will NOT give specific info as (believe it or not) I actually like my job.

  56. Max

    P.S. Fred06 has a good point too. Why give canvassers so much grief? Be polite, say no thanks and hang up the phone if your that bothered. Phone and speak to Manager if overly upset, but why take it out on them.

    Alternatively, just get TPS (third page ish of phone book) and all your calls will stop!!!

  57. Max

    John B. Its your choice. If you want to keep the box sash, why not just get wood d/g. at the end of the say, you still need to treat and paint it. If you get UPVC and leave the sash there, where will you stand if the windows fall out in a couple of years? Even if your local guy’s still around, is it his fault for fitting badly, or yours for not looking after the wood?

    Think about it.

  58. Guy

    Max, thanks for those helpful comments. I think most people recognise that behind all the sales guff there’s a human being trying to earn a living. Now, how do we make people trust salesmen. How did they get such a bad image in the first place?

  59. Max

    You would be surprised Guy. Having been there myself many people I have seen have had an immediate animosity towards sales people. As far as trusting salemen, would say a lot has do do with gut instinct. Let the rep do his presentation and listen to him/her first, then decide for yourself. Stop the rep from doing his presntation will normlly just result in bad feelings.

    As for getting a bad name, well, its very opinionated. I personally believe that the major players came up with very clever and genuine sales techniques and promotions and the smaller companies tried copying them. Many failing to follow through on promises made. This lead to a huge distrust towards the individuals, which spread to all smaller companies, and finally to the whole industry. Will not be so nieve as to say this is true in every instance – should imagine some smaller companies can be very good, whilst some larger companies have been known to take on board unprofessional reps; but belive this to be true in the majority of cases.

  60. Dan

    This is a buyer’s market as well as a sellers. The whole problem is that people buy windows with little, or often, no knowledge about what they are doing and therefore get duped by some very unscrupulous salesmen. I am lucky as I know a bit about the subject as part of my job.

    My advice would be to decide what you want before you ask anyone in, and decide on your specification so that firms are quoting on the same product and style.

    Often buyers have no idea about the style and choose windows that do not suit their house, and, if they live in a semi-detached house, chose a style that clashes with their neighbours windows too, causing an architectural nightmare.

    I got Anglian to supply two large bay windows and one box room window and a kitchen window, all with equal sight lines, in the original style of the house, for £5k. Their quality and style match against the original is very good, but maybe that is because I knew what I wanted and bargained a hard price and got what I wanted. And, no I’m not a salesman for Anglian! I fell out with the first person and sent him away. But their windows provide excellent security and a long guarantee as well. So, it’s up to you folks but decide what you really want first!

  61. Stuart

    I worked for Zenith, for about 5 weeks and then got asked to leave because I was not pushy enough with the customers. Despite being told that my training would last for 6 weeks and that I should not expect to sell for 8 weeks they complained at me for not selling after 2 weeks. I think the company was being very unfair as I was really only just learning the technique.

    Anyway, as previously mentioned in one of the posts Zenith are not mentioned very much. This is because they sell the best quality product available on the market and offer the best customer service around, however if you want quality you will have to pay for it.

    After reading some of the posts above I can see that nearly every company uses the same sales technique – lengthy product demonstration, high price quote, discounted quote, phone branch manager to negotiate further ‘discount’ and then try to make you sign on the day. This technique is crap and I can see why so many people are fed up with salesmen, but please just let us do our jobs – we are only doing what we have been told to.

    If you want the highest quality product with excellent customer service, backup and guarantees then choose Zenith. You can probably expect to pay between £5000 – £10000 more for a Zenith conservatory compared with the other big companies (Anglian, Everest, Weatherseal) but you will definitely get the best value for money.
    It is definitely worth it for you, the customer, just to sit and listen to the sales consultant for the 4 hour presentation and pretend to be interested.

    I have a few tips for anyone looking to buy a conservatory or windows:
    -Try and think about exactly what you want before the sales consultant arrives, this saves time for you.
    -Always opt for a glass roof (Zenith fit these as standard but other companies charge extra), polycarbonate roofs will discolour, break or be covered in moss within a few years but a glass roof will not. Also, glass is easier to clean and allows more light in, it also looks so much better on the finished thing. (Beware though, with a south facing conservatory you will need tinted glass else you will literally boil in the heat kept in by the glass).
    -Get at least 4 quotes: Zenith, Anglian/Everest, two local or less well known companies. Also, try to get the quotes starting with the local companies and then work up to Zenith. This way you can appreciate the superior quality of a Zenith product.
    -Always sign on the day to get maximum discount. You have at least 7 days to think about it anyway (legal right to cancel). If you sign on the day, you get the cheapest price and the sales consultant gets the most commission so everyone is a winner.
    -Always watch your installation being carried out; any problems you spot can be resolved easily there and then.
    -If you choose a local company, make sure you check them out fully and know exactly what you are getting. Many of these companies are small and likely to go bust and then you lose all of your guarantees, etc. Also, they do not include any extra building work (eg. foundations or brickwork) in their quotes.

    As I have now left Zenith Conservatories, I can give you pretty much any inside information you want – just ask.

  62. wibwobs

    I am in dispute with Zenith over the quality of the internal finish on 13 window installations they have done for me. The clause in the contract where it says “restore to pre-decorative order” means what Zenith consider to be pre-decorative order not what I think, even though I have “before” pictures of what the condition of the window surrounds was like. I have asked the Office of Fair Trading to take a look at the clause to see if any recourse is available. Aside from the really appalling finish inside, my bay window is not in “plum” although the Installations Manager has passed it as perfectly ok. Question: have any of you taken your complaints to the Glass and Glazing Federation and if so have you had any joy from them and their Independent Arbitration.

  63. wibwobs

    This question is directed as Kosandan in particular [because you mention gaskets] but anyone else please chip in who has feedback about this. I am sure when we signed for the Zenith windows we saw a demo model without any gaskets, inside or out and this is what we were expecting to get. The windows they have fitted have gaskets on the inside. They have been trying to tell me I was mistaken. Help me if you can by advising if your Zenith windows have gaskets.

  64. dave

    Great debate! I found this whilst researching a website I am setting up at the moment about double-glazing.
    I’ve never had double-glazing installed and if I did I certainly wouldn’t do so with any national company. This is because I reckon small local firms are always better.
    I get my car fixed by a mate down the road and my motorbike done in the same way and whenever I have had any building work it’s the same.
    I agree it’s riskier but I hate the whole bullshit associated with salespeople and everything they stand for! The way they have little catchphrases and those pseudo-zen motivationasl posters they stick up in sales offices! In fact every posting on this site (slip excluded) has tended to confirm this. The ‘All buyers are liars’ and the absurd. ‘there are two people in life; those who can afford Anglian and those who want them and can’t’ etc etc
    Brilliant! You couldn’t make it up; David Brent lives on. The positioning of something as mundane as double-glazing as an aspirational lifestyle choice! They’re windows! That’s all…

  65. naive

    I am in search of a reputable company for double glazing. I have had my share of the salesperson headache, which I will share with you later.

    Now I am intereted in Basher’s DIY cost estimate formula… But not sure how do you count bay windows (say, 3 pane) and the number of openers? and how about smaller size windows, e.g. in the bathroom? Could you elaborate? Thanks in advance.

    Jeje, I haven’t read all the messages through to July. I hope it is not too late now, from April. I am also in Berkshire. Reading, precisely. Could you give me some advice on your GOOD experience with the local co. (Out of all these clouds of bad experiences)? Thanks

  66. alex

    i used to work for a double glazing company and believe me the whole sales pitch is a con. I could go into reams and reams about how and why but take it from me the first price you get is overinflated and you may eventually get down to something realistic.

  67. Scankguy

    Hi

    Just had the Anglian rep here today. ALso have had a quote for a reputable and well established local firm and after some discussion of options, Angliain are very close to the loacl guys prices. I am having 5 windows and 3 doors installed, for £4000 (£3800 local guy) and the facias and guttering replaced for £1200 (£1150 for local guy) I dont think either reps were pushy. But you do expect to discuss the price and push it down. I got £500 off the original price from Anglian. Local guy didint move at all.

    I have signed the “show home” deal with Anglian, and have 7 days to decide. Another local guy is coming on Monday, and I will get back to the first company to see how low they will go. But as Anglain say – you are buying quality…..Is that true I now wonder?

    Cheers

  68. Rae

    does anyone know where to go if we have a problem with Anglian windows and if has anyone had any success in chasing the salesperson after being mislead regarding a product

  69. Farley

    comment for Rae Anglian problem
    I don’t think you will get anywhere with regards what the rep said or didn’t say. But if you do have an installation problem that is difficult for you to resolve at your local branch, write or phone customer care at the head office in Norwich. Your local branch will be detailed by Norwich to deal with your problem.

  70. jon miller

    I worked for weatherseal for 4 years with some success in the highlands(am now in manchester)and can tell people here that a profile(the frame) like duraflex which is used by weatherseal and the overall standerd of window is of a much higher quality than you get from builders and small local firms, i have seen many window systems just collapse under the more extreme conditions up there!! people its true you do for the most part get what you paid for.
    As for sales tactics yes i did use many a drop close or sharp angle or marrige but most of my deals were done by just being a nice guy and asking for the buisness, if they said no i simply asked if it was to much. These high pressure sales people that are talked about are simply the ones who wont cut it for more than a year in a dog eat dog industry! the really good ones put you under pressure without you knowing it, if anyone wants to deal with weatherseal or just get some info feel free to email me. jon@dahomes.co.uk

  71. jon miller

    by the way i no longer work with them…..am an estate agents now :-)

  72. Paul

    Just want to take Jon up on his offer of advice.

    I had a visit from Weatherseal yesterday and got ‘bullied into submission’ and signed up for a conservatory without having a chance to speak to my parents about finance (they were willing to help but were thinking it would cost £6k, so we were a little niave!). However, I made it clear to the sales rep that I would possibly cancel, which he said would be okay (though he made it clear that he wasn’t happy about it). The only reason I signed, of course, was because the price, which came down from £18k to £10k via £12.5k because of a Feature Home offer where they apparently try to sign up 12 homes in double quick time or some such nonsense.
    I have since found out that I basically cannot afford it (hence why I was keen to have at least more than 10 minutes to think about the offer, which sadly was not forthcoming).

    So, I presume I am okay to cancel (I have sent off a letter today and will be cancelling my finance agreement tomorrow) based on the note on the back of the contract.

    Also, presumably as part of their sales service, the branch manager has now phoned to say he needs to come around tomorrow (Thursday) to ‘cancel the contract’ by filling out all the necessary forms. Is this true? Or is he, as I am sure I am right to believe, coming around to make a song and dance about things?

    I will be speaking to Trading Standards tomorrow AM to see what they say, but as you are in the know, I was wondering if you could help out.

  73. Scankguy

    HI

    Follow on the prevoius post – I cancelled the roof line (which I had quoted for at the same time as the windows) as it was too much, and needed to send a written cancellation to the LEGAL department of Anglian, and it had to be RECIEVED by them within 7 days. I sent it special delivery just in case. So if you are in two minds dont hang around. By the way the rep did call me when he heard I was cancelling and offered another £200 off the costs.

    By the way, the cheaper local comapny have not got back to me about the roof line, no doubt as it doesnt have a window job with it which I guess is where the profit is!

    Other advice is to see Anglain etc after talking to the local companies to give you the benchmark costs.

    Also you can cancel if the survey show additional costs over the quote…..

  74. jon miller

    I am surprised scanks local company did not get back to him as the type of pvc roofline is made from (foam extruded<<can never spell that) is the type which has the greatest profit margins, beware the small company though as the cheep stuff they can sell you may well go pink or orange!! kinda defeats the point in replacing them if that happens cos you got to pain them again….doh!!!

  75. jon miller

    I am surprised scanks local company did not get back to him as the type of pvc roofline is made from (foam extruded<<can never spell that) is the type which has the greatest profit margins, beware the small company though as the cheep stuff they can sell you may well go pink or orange!! kinda defeats the point in replacing them if that happens cos you got to paint them again….doh!!!

  76. Scotty

    I had an Anglian guy around tonight for a quote. The product was, without doubt, very good and he answered all the technical questions I had picked up from the internet. He originally quoted an enormous £19.5k for 9 x windows, 1 x 4 section bay window, front and back door in mahogany – I nearly choked! Then with some frantic calculation and “weekly” strictly limited discount, he lowered the price to 9.5k. I said I wanted to think about it, so he rang his Manager who lowered the price to 7.5k if I took finance @ 23%APR. I can get a lower APR loan from Nationwide. I’ve heard ballpark rules of £450 per window, £700 per door + 25% for mahogany but how much should I pay for a 4 section bay?

  77. Basher

    a 4 part bay is calculated the same way as windows 4 x £450 = £1800 plus a surcharge of £160 to £250 this will give the complete price including window board, baypoles, cill welds, lead and trims

  78. Basher

    Scotty: sounds like a good deal, just do not be pressurised to pay more after the surveyor has done his visit.
    This another trick to watch for, some of the direct sell companies try to increase the price after the surveyor has submitted his survey report, read the small print, if this happens ask for a full refund

  79. Ian

    Finally have got the conservatory finished. One massive argument and endless phone calls to the HQ in Norwich seems to have done the trick.

    The regional managers are terrible – allegedly they report directly to the board of Anglian (actually they report to someone on the board -not quite the same thing!)

    Anglian do have a quality product but the customer service upto the finished item is shocking. I got a reasonable price for a 4x5m glass roofed conservatory-so the price and quality are fine. Just be prepared for rubbish service. However, the after service under the guarentee seems to be a lot better. They arrange a day and time and they turn up! (see previous post) They are replacing a large glass unit free of charge as it was marked during installation- I am completely dumbfounded why they can’t use this approach during the most stressfull time of installation.

    Not sure if I would use Anglian again but don’t be put off, just be prepared. and no I don’t have the sales rep stood with a gun to my head while I write this although this may become one of their new sales tactics!!!!

  80. Ian

    Finally have got the conservatory finished. One massive argument and endless phone calls to the HQ in Norwich seems to have done the trick.

    The regional managers are terrible – allegedly they report directly to the board of Anglian (actually they report to someone on the board -not quite the same thing!)

    Anglian do have a quality product but the customer service upto the finished item is shocking. I got a reasonable price for a 4x5m glass roofed conservatory-so the price and quality are fine. Just be prepared for rubbish service. However, the after service under the guarentee seems to be a lot better. They arrange a day and time and they turn up! (see previous post) They are replacing a large glass unit free of charge as it was marked during installation- I am completely dumbfounded why they can’t use this approach during the most stressfull time of installation.

    Not sure if I would use Anglian again but don’t be put off, just be prepared. and no I don’t have the sales rep stood with a gun to my head while I write this although this may become one of their new sales tactics!!!!

  81. TaB

    Weatherseal = NOOO!!

    Yeah, we had to endure a 3 hour presentation from weatherseal in which they consistantly told me how great their product was.

    I was initially quoted 16k for 7 windows a door and a patio, this then magically went down ‘with discounts’ to approx 9.5k which id estimated then eventually because my house was so important in the area to 5.5k!!

    The shameless bullying tactics that the salesman used (who claimed that he worked for advertising) was bordering pathetic, the obviousness of his conversations on the phone to his boss were ridiculous, i literally had to push him out of the door, which is when his ‘boss’ who i spoke to got a bit upset and was rude to me, which was hilarious after 3 hours of how important the customer is to weatherseal.

    I did believe the product was good, but after reading this page its obvious its all typical sales jargon. If you are genuinely impressed by Weatherseal, keep saying no to them, i find it hard to believe i saved 11k because of the importance of my house, these people no how much you can afford and milk it out of you, the guy even pointed out my widescreen TV to imply that i could afford it!!

    Bottom line, dont believe anything they say to you, no matter how genuine they sound sometimes, have a price in your head, keep it there and make THEM negotiate!! Also i found its fun to say you have an uncle who works for trading standards and also ask about the consumer act 1974…they leave the important parts out!

  82. Angela

    Help! I have just discovered this site and would love to have your commentes….I have recently had four companies in for quotes to do the whole house. My head is reeling from all the salestalk and the time they take – 2hrs +.

    No-one asked me to sign anything on the day, but are all going to post me the quotes. Based on your experience, can anybody guestimate what I should expect on a large Edwardian house with 3 large bausy (5 panes each) plus two very small bays (3 panes) and two small windows? Everyone kept saying how expensive it was going to be due to this format and I am dreading the quotes.

    I have also heard that BAC is not the BAC of old and have changed hands?

    What is the best company in your opinion?

    Many thanks, Angela

  83. Eileen

    Does anyone have experience of Staybrite? I had a very polite and courteous sales rep round, quoted 5.5k for two half-glazed entrance doors plus patio window and one small (2ft x 1ft)window with pilk K glass. Does this sound reasonable? I don’t mind paying if the quality and service is good.

    Many thanks, Eileen

  84. mary

    i signed a contract for a conservatory at same time as ordering windows which i paid cash . after making a mess of my windows and damaging my home icancelled the conservatory, they have sued me for breach of contract, ihave no conservatory of them and they froze my bank account to get my money, have i the rite to cancell this please help

  85. Sofie Weller

    I have found this website hilarious. I am a female rep for Everest Ltd and I agree with the other sales people on one thing that no one that doesnt buy on the night ever rings back. However when I do the job I dont lower the price 1 hundred times and ring my boss before trying for the close. I show the product well give plently of consise information on funding and give one genuine discount to give a bottom line price and ask for yes or no. I am one of the top reps in my league and my customers love me. Its does hwoever help that I wolk for the best most long established company though!

  86. Dan

    Sofie – Well you deserve a pat on the back then. Maybe you should transfer to your companies training dept’ or better still go freelance and train the likes of Weatherseal and earn more than your commision pays now.

    I disagree with you though – If I was happy with 1) the sale rep (and thier attitude – first impressions last) 2) the product and 3) the price, then I would have no problem in calling back even if it was a couple of weeks later.

    Today I had the displeasure of a Weatherseal salesman who turned up 1 hour late. I didn’t even get a telephone call. I wanted to reschedule but he insisted on being only 15 minutes so I gave the guy a chance. Bad mistake! 45 minutes later and several assurances that he was doing me a favour with the figures and 2 rediculous calls to his manager I stood my ground and said No for the 10th time. I explained I just wanted a quote for windows and doors and that I was going to shop around like any normal person would and compare. Well my reluctance to sign up to the Show Home deal and the finance agreement meant that 6 windows, 1 front door and 1 patio door came to £11.5k. Hmmmmmmmm, I think not!

    I didn’t even get a goodbye from this guy – he walked out of my home like a child who was about to cry, clutching his phone and dialing his manager!

    We were pleasant enough, gave him a chance, but really – is there anyneed for this kind of sales technique?

  87. dan

    Sofie – Well you deserve a pat on the back then. Maybe you should transfer to your companies training dept’ or better still go freelance and train the likes of Weatherseal and earn more than your commision pays now.

    I disagree with you though – If I was happy with 1) the sale rep (and thier attitude – first impressions last) 2) the product and 3) the price, then I would have no problem in calling back even if it was a couple of weeks later.

    Today I had the displeasure of a Weatherseal salesman who turned up 1 hour late. I didn’t even get a telephone call. I wanted to reschedule but he insisted on being only 15 minutes so I gave the guy a chance. Bad mistake! 45 minutes later and several assurances that he was doing me a favour with the figures and 2 rediculous calls to his manager I stood my ground and said No for the 10th time. I explained I just wanted a quote for windows and doors and that I was going to shop around like any normal person would and compare. Well my reluctance to sign up to the Show Home deal and the finance agreement meant that 6 windows, 1 front door and 1 patio door came to £11.5k. Hmmmmmmmm, I think not!

    I didn’t even get a goodbye from this guy – he walked out of my home like a child who was about to cry, clutching his phone and dialing his manager!

    We were pleasant enough, gave him a chance, but really – is there anyneed for this kind of sales technique?

  88. dan

    Oopps – excuse the 3 posts!

  89. dan

    OOppps – a bit trigger happy there with 3 posts!

  90. farley

    If you are not in a hurry to buy, and want one of the national company’s to fit your windows, wait untill January befor you ask for a quote. This is the best time to get a good price because this is always a slow time for sales, and the large company’s financally need to keep sales going even when the market is slow.

  91. Basher

    Angela expect around £10350 plus around £800 for extra work on the bays

  92. Angela

    Thanks for all your comments, especially Basher’s price estimate. I really appreciate this website – it has been a breath of fresh air after two weeks of quite obnoxious and underhand sales talk.

    I would like to say to Sophie – what absolute drivel. If you went to buy a car would you buy the first one you looked at? Of course not. It is pure common sense to get a few quotes, price up various companies, assess what the difference is between products and sales techniques etc. etc. I have had four three major companies, Everest, BAC and Anglian and not one has tried to get me to sign on the day, nor would I have any intention of doing so.

    Secondly, re Weatherseal. I had an appt booked for two weeks. I confirmed before I went on holiday. The day before, having booked two hours off work to be here, they rang to check I would be in. They wanted to know if my partner would be here too. I said no, he cannot take two hours off as well – they would be dealing with me. And guess what? In 21century I was told that unless my partner was there with me to approve the purchase, they couldn’t come! I was aghast. I am an intelligent 40 something women, a chartered psychologist, and they said that people (i.e. women) change their minds once they have spoken with their men and so they only saw people in partnership together!! Have you ever heard anything like it? Needless to say, I wrote a scornful letter to the governing body and had several calls thereafter trying to rearrange. What a joke of a company.

    I shall await all the quotes and thanks once again Basher, fingers crossed it is not too far over that!

    regards
    Angela

  93. Sofie Weller

    I understand everyone’s opinions on not wanting to sign on the day all I meant is from the salespersons point of view you might get one call back a year from someone who hasnt bought on the day and this is the general experience of not just me but of the few hundred staff in my company and many others I know too…I’d like to leave everyone an open ended quote for as long as poss but in most cases it just wouldn’t work…I guess you have to be in the job to understand! The other funny thing is that people don’t beleive that discounts end when you say they do. If you go to Allders and there is a TV with 50% off you can’t just stroll in and buy it 3 weeks later when the discount has ended. Sure we have year round discounts but they do end and change all of the time and thats why we give deadlines I quoted someone 40% the other day and he was amazed when I said we are now back to 30% and actually went through with it.

    Regarding Weatherseal I spent 3 hours on Friday and 3 hours on Saturday with a lady who is taking them to court as they did the most awful work on her home and forgot the even seal the windows in!! If anyone is thinking of buying from them I will give you her details and you will soon change your mind!

    I am doing lots of alarm sales now which I really enjoy…how do people find those salespeople? I am interested in your comments as I have done a security course and I get a totally different response from people when I sell alarms.

    Sofie

  94. Sofie Weller

    Angela who did you choose after your 4 quotes?

  95. Sofie Weller

    Angela sorry this comment might be too late but BAC are not the BAC of old you are right one of their ex-members of staff works with me now and although they are advertising and making themself sound quite big they were in fact last time I heard in administration although still giving out quotes!

  96. Angela

    Sophie, I haven’t chosen anyone! I am still waiting to hear – is this normal? I did have a man around (recommended on this site,) from the National Replacement Window Advisory Service and he suggested that none would get back to me as they all knew I had other quotes coming in. Surely this cannot be true? I have spent almost 10 hours with salespeople and have yet to receive a written quote from any of them, even a follow up call from most, and only a one telephone quote from BAC for £18,000+. Do you think my being a psychologist put them off? I am at a loss now – all your ex-salespeople out there, can you tell me- do you really expect people to get only one quote and would someone like me, with a few questions and other estimates, put you off giving me a quote? I would have thought that three weeks is long enough!!

  97. Angela

    p.s. Sophie, you are right. I did a company check on BAC and they have a pretty unhealthy background. However, neighbours of ours got their windows done by them last year and they do look good – they are also the only ones to have come back to me, albeit with a telephone quote so far of £18,000+ which is far too high, basing it on Basher’s guestimate.

    Will let you know what happens and who gets to do them, if anyone!

  98. Babs

    Hi – back on the board after some absence! Our windows have now been installed by a local company and we are very happy with the product and the price, around £7.5K. They were too late getting back with a quote for the conservatory (6 wks) and came in higher than Anglian eventually.

    Conservatory work starting next week so will keep people posted. Incidentally we have been inundated with unwanted mailings from flooring, furniture and blinds companies and don’t know how our name got passed on!………..

  99. Guy

    OK it seems as though this whole discussion isn’t going to die down. Great stuff. To better facilitate this post I’ve created a forum. Noval idea huh? Well some of you will like it, others will resent having to register but this page is going to start getting pretty big if I don’t control it somehow. I’m not too keen on creating a ‘part3′ so, please see this new forum as the new home for all your comments: http://www.guyweb.co.uk/forums/viewforum.php?id=1

    Comments are now closed.

    Enjoy.

  100. Andy

    Hmm, a very interesting discussion.

    I work for a major d/g firm in sales.
    And a few things on here have really shocked me.
    The first, Zenith? what a loada rubbish.
    If you believe all these ‘different’ people that keep posting that they’re the best product and the best value for money then you’re stupider then they are!
    Lets not go by what I think, but what the Independant Which Report said.
    They said that there was only 1 national double glazing firm worthy of a Star rating, only 1 national double glazing firm actually offered anything different to the smaller local firms, and they basically said that unless you got to the firm they said was the best, then you might aswell go with the local firm.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love Zenith, for 2 reasons:
    The first: I love it if they have quoted before me. It means I can go in and not disapoint the customer like they have through their tacky sales pitch, and high pressure sales.
    The second: After the short period of time where the windows they have sold have become faulty the customers only want to deal with a company with a good reputation. Like the company I work for.

    This is an important fact you shouldn’t forget!
    Most national firms fitters are paid commission. Rather than per window, or per hour.. they get paid a % of the jobs value. So for example. If your windows cost you 10,000, they may get 10% between two of them.. 500 each. However, with companies like Anglian giving their products away because of their financial trouble the job maybe only cost you 10,000, but should cost 15,000! good for you you think? NO! that means that the fitters are going to be 500 pounds out of pocket. 250 each! Why are they going to spend the 5 days on your house to fit the windows when in reality, they are only gettin paid for 3 days..
    This is why there are so many horror stories out there.

    As for people coming on here saying their company is the best.. there is only 1 company that can officially advertise that they are the best. It’s their slogan.
    They may also be owned by the same people that own another firm, but I re-assure you they have nothing to do with eachother.
    Just like Mcdonalds and Burger king.. same owners..

  101. neil

    hi all!
    my name is neil, and i work for anglian windows (chester). rather than attempting to excuse my company on this site, i invite anybody that lives within the north west region that has a problem in any way with anglian (fitting or otherwise), to contact me on 01244 373 632. i will try my best to help in any way possible, (incl. ‘no pressure quotes’). hopefully i can help restore your faith in what i consider to be the best in the industry- and i’ve worked for a few!

  102. Dougie

    Hi there,
    Is there any truth in a bit of gossip I have just heard that Anglian windows are going into/or are in receivership???
    Im a bit concerned as i have a pending order.

  103. JAMIE MORGAN

    Hi my name is Jamie Morgan and i work as a marketing manager for Anglian Home Improvements. After extensive reading through this website, yes i had a few chuckles along the way but, I am most disappointed that anyone here has had “issues” with without a shadow of a doubt the best home improvements company out there. Being established as a national co. for 40 years we have well over a million satisfied and very pleased customers.The one thing I cant understand is your naivity as consumers! Surely you people no the old story of double glazing salesman and second hand car salesmen. If not why not its been advertised enough! I have worked for a few companies, Staybrite Windows, Goldseal UK and of course Anglian having experience in a range of fields from initial canvassing and sales. Our service is second to none compared to alot of others and I agree you get a more personal touch from a local builder, however look at thee client base Anglian have got! Surely if anyone had complaints you would contact the installation department?? If you bought a faulty product from Tesco you wouldnt take it back to the checkout for a refund??? You would go to customer services??? Therefore why go back to the sales department when you have problems with the installation? As for any rumours that Anglian are going or have gone onto recievership it is utter bullsh*t and funnily enough thoughs rumours were started by a major competetor. I ask how can a National company profitting £300 MILLION a year go into recievership? The ONLY other product which could be compared to Anglian’s is and Everest window but has less of a spec i.e security factors. Yes the trade department exists within Anglian and as to someones comment earlier the best time to buy from Anglian is before january! Its November from a customer point of view. The reason being is Their is less work being fitted in january so they put the most amount of discount on in november to increase this!Any body who has queries or questions or just generally disagrees with anything i say dont hestitate to email me back at jamiemorgan1@yahoo.co.uk.

    Yours

    Jamie Morgan

  104. david

    help had my windows out 5 times lots and lots of remakes still after one year they are taking them out again help the company is ANGLIGAN WINDOWS

  105. paul

    Basher (or anyone else) …

    What is baseline figure for upvc double glazed sash windows ?

  106. Harry

    Can anyone help? Anglian Windows will not give any help for windows older than 10 years, saying they don’t have the parts.(And being pretty snotty too).

    Is there an enterprising fitter who has some of these old parts and isn’t scared of going up a ladder to fit them?

    We have UPvc windows fitted summer 1988, which makes them 18 years old.
    The glazing is fine, but the sliding parts holding the glazed part to the frame (on the openable windows, naturally) are in many cases broken, and have been for many years.These are little nylon blocks which run in metal channels. The blocks themselves are rivetted to the pantograph arms (sorry, technical)which hold the openable part of the window set, and which enable it to be opened and shut.
    Is there an enterprising fitter who has some of these old parts and isn’t scared of going up a ladder to fit them?

  107. Harry

    Quick update: I have since had very constructive discussions with Anglian, who have now understood and taken on our problem and may well solve it, so the initial communications problem should be buried. I will keep this site updated with our progress, but if there is a knowledgeable fitter who has some of these old parts, please do reply …

  108. Guy

    Ok, I apologise ahead of time for the long post. As someone who’s been working for Zenith for about 3 months, you can take or leave my comments as you please. Yes I am biased, but I am also as honest as I can be.

    ANY rep comes to give you a presentation, ask to look over copies of the warranties and customer certification packs. If there is any small print, dont buy. If they are’nt carrying specimen packs, throw them out – they are confidence men. If the warranties are not backed by a third party fund, think carefully.

    I dont run down other companies – but find that many other companies reps run down Zenith with outright lies about the quality, service, etc. I will say that the only other window I have seen that approaches our quality is from Everest, but I personally consider ours superior.

    The commission structures someone quoted earlier are ludicrous – the base quoted is way higher than reality, and the overcosting is untrue ( if we overcost by too much, it gets returned to the customer. If we overcost regularly, we are disciplined or fired. If we undercost, it comes out of our wages – and if we try to meet a budget that is way too low, the manager may take a chance on an undercosting in order to meet his targets, so we wont even get paid).

    As far as the surveyor goes, dont believe what was said earlier. With zenith, the surveyor is a real check on the measurements of the rep, and his measurements are essential to the manufacture – I’ve had a couple of deals cancelled because I was slightly under maeasured, and the customer didn’t believe the surveyor, and was furious when the company cancelled cause they would’nt cough up an additional 65 quid. ( on an 7500 contract…) Thats the COMPANY cancelling, not the customer. think they’d do that if there was any possible profit in it?. Sometimes it’s something as simple as us forgetting to price in toughened glass on one window. Or the cost of removing asbestos from roofline, cause the customer talked me into believing they ddn’t have it. Now I allways quote with it, as I know if it isn’t present, the customer gets a refund for that bit.

    Now I don’t come from a sales backround. I’m a computer geek. I never thought I’d be able to sell anything. I went for the interview at zenith cause I thought it’d be good practice for a job interview. The HR person simply showed me the sample and video we show customers – and I realised this was something I could sell, because I believed in the quality.
    The security is second to none, and I’ve seen a lot of different companies glazing – my parents had just had one of the other big names fitted. Yes zenith is higher priced ( but not always the highest) but I believe it’s worth it.

    If you arrange an appointment with a Zenith rep, be prepared for about 2-3 hours. Thats not fiddling, thats how long it takes to show someone about the company & the product, answer all the questions and do the designs. Know what you want ahead of time – if he/she is a good rep, and you tell them you are working towards a budget, they will suggest ways to economise on the designs. If you know what your budget is and are realistic it will help. (I’ve just given a demo to a couple who wanted a powered garage door, 7 windows and 2 doors… with a budget of 2.5K, which they only admitted at the end. As it’s a new build extension, we cant do just part of it. By the time I’d done the demo, they really wanted what we had.. we just couldn’t help them. I spent an extra hour with them, just trying to make things more affordable by modifying designs and options. )

    And above all, dont be surprised to be asked for a commitment on the night. Its true that if left to think about it, people dont call back. Maybe 1 in a hundred will. If you do call back , dont be surprised to have to pay a higher price – I don’t know about other companies, but Zenith’s showhome offer is real .( We’re voluntarily audited by OFT & trading standards about 3 times a year to make sure it is… who else can say that?…..)

    Also, you may be wary of credit, but take a hard, long look at the funding package available – it’s not a con. Read it carefully. When you sign up, take the details into the bank, and ask if they can do better (remember, with Zenith, you can sign up on finance, but there is no interest accrued untill after you have signed off on the fit – so you can get a bank loan to cover it, and just hand over the cheque on fitting, and it’s the same price as cash. Dont get the loan then pay before fit – it involves a lot more paperwork in transferring the contract to a different payment method, and you loose all the insurance that you get for free with the funding package. Paying on the day of fit costs not a penny extra. If you can, before the meeting, take a look at your monthly income and outgoings, and figure out how much you can *really* spare per month without problems. If it’s only £20, you need to cut down on expenses before you can even consider new windows…

    Above all, consider this – your house is probably the biggest single investment of your life. How much does it cost? 150K ? now, what does that actually buy you?
    Land. 4 walls. Power sockets. Heating. Water. Roof. Kitchen. Bathroom. Doors and windows.
    divide it up… land 60k, Kitchen – a good one about 12k. Bathroom & heating about 6k. Walls joinery and electrics – look at bricks and rates. about 30k. Roof about 30k .
    Check those prices with self-build publications – they’re about accurate for a 150K house with a *good* bathroom and a luxury kitchen. Whats left? windows and doors and internal decorations. Amount left ? 10K . So a complete set of double glazed windows and doors that should last you 35 years or more should be about 10k in a 150k house. If you pay less, you either got a bargain (well done,but that rep probably didn’t make a penny) or you *thought* you were getting a bargain, but you have something that will last 5-12 years, not 30+, and the ones who sold it to you are laughing all the way to the bank. Recycled PVC is one quarter the cost of “virgin” PVC, and thats likely a big part of the difference – with its stabibility and colour issues, you truly do get what you pay for.

    There are a *few* small companies who do cheap, good work, with good materials – and a real warranty. But they are very difficult to identify, and in todays market, they may not even be there in a couple of years time.

    Sorry for the rant – theres just a lot of misinformation that I’d lilke to correct here.

  109. Sheels in Sheffield

    Does anyone know if Anglian and Zenith are working together? What is Bowater Home Improvements because they both appear under this name when you type it into Google.

    My dad has been hounded relentlessly by these two companies and they seem to be working side by side. My father is in his eighties and lives alone. He is a vulnerable target and they seem to recognise this fact by the way they continuously call and knock on his door without any prior arrangements. They thrive on my dad’s lack of assertiveness – he often lets them in so as not to appear rude and then they stay for hours. He then feels guilty about not giving them some sort of recognition for their time. He does say no thank you but he just gets ignored and before he knows it they are crawling all over the house measuring up and demanding signatures.

    I have intervened with Zenith. I have asked Head Office in Norwich to send me a written assurance that he will no longer be targeted. The letter came back that he would not receive any further calls. He then got the usual cold call at the front door by a bloke he described as a ‘rotweiler’. I contacted the top man at Zenith again. He has sent me a further creepy letter assuring me that no more cold calling will occur. Three days later – Anglian phone – its the rotweiler from Zenith saying he has decided Zenith are too expensive and he can offer this deal with Anglian now. Luckily my dad hung up. Are they linked under this Bowater group? Does this mean that when they appear to be competing with each other’s quotes they are actually both to benefit from a successful sale? Does anyone else agree that this is really immoral? Is it legal?

    By the way – ANGLIAN WINDOWS – PLEASE TAKE NOTE, EVERYTHING I HAVE SAID TO ZENITH APPLIES TO YOU TOO. lEAVE HIM ALONE. HE IS A FRAIL OLD MAN. IF HE NEEDS NEW WINDOWS, HE HAS FIVE SONS AND DAUGHTERS WHO CAN ORGANISE THIS. YOU WILL NOT BE ON OUR LIST.

  110. anon

    Zenith are not linked to Anglian in any way. I work for Zenith , and because you call from sequential dialling systems sometimes you do get a person thats already recieved a call(not tha canvassers fault can i just say)
    zenith do however have a number where u can leave your name and address to be taken off their regional computer system which is 0800137659
    i hope this helps you and your dad , because i cant speak for Anglian but Zenith definately do NOT set out to target vunerable older people
    (but i must say watch out for supremo glaze because i used to worlk for them and they used to TELL us to target old people , and it was obviously immoral things like this which made me switch to a more legitimate company.
    sorry on behalf of Zenith again , hope this post helps .

  111. shaun

    We signed the contract for an Anglian conservatory in April 05 and they started building in September 05. Its been one disaster after another and the conservatory is still not finish (nearly into May 06). Luckily we’ve only paid 50% of the final price, but the amount of personal effort we’ve had to put into this project ourselves is phenomenal. Anglian employed incompetent teams of builders and fitters who were in some cases carrying out jobs that they were not even trained to do. Anglian also failed to supervise and monitor the work and consequently the standard of work was appalling in many areas. We’ll not be paying another penny and all I can say is that I’m looking forward to the day when Anglian try taking us to court.

  112. EB in Glasgow

    Had Weatherseal out last week giving me the spiel regarding windows and a new french door. Since they were not interested in giving quotes valid for a certain time but only deals on the day I asked them to leave. After reading post here I am now looking for a local company. Does anyone now of a reputable replacement window company in the Greater Glasgow area?

  113. Billy Bob

    Left Anglian after nearly 20years.Could not work for them any more.Just to let you know that Anglian makes a 60% profit on retail work and only 5% on contracts.So even if you get a discount of 50% you can still make a better saving by haggling. Don’t believe the salesman when he keeps phoning the offices up, he already knows what he can give you or not give you.

  114. Jaggu

    Well, we had Anglian in the other day for a quote on the windows and doors for our house. It comprised of 2 bay windows, 9 normal windows, a French door and front and back door. Anyway, he went through his usual spiel for nearly an hour and a half then went on that the total cost would be £9.5K. Then he went on about how we could get it for about £5,600 if we opt for the Gold Account and pay monthly (that’s if we pay according to his price structure). We said we’d think about it and let him know. Then he went on about how we’ll only get the 30% discount if we sign up today. We still said no.

    Lo and behold, a few days later an area manager rings to say that they’d had some commercial windows that they can supply us but they’ll have to send someone down again! Well he did turn up (on time) and thought we wanted our facia replaced and he could do it for £3000! I said we needed the windows done. So he looked round again (without taking any measurements) and quoted us he could do the windows for £4950!

    We’ve got someone else coming (local tradesman) today so I’ll see what he quotes us!
    By the way, I used http://www.u-fit.co.uk to get a rough estimate of all the windows minus the fitting and it came to £4000 so the second quote from Anglian doesn’t seem that bad.

  115. charlie

    To answer Sheels from Sheffield’s question about the legality of persistent and unwanted calls, they can be illegal under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

    Although this legislation was aimed primarily at stalking, it can also apply to situations such as continued sales approaches – the trick is to formally tell the company that you do not want to be approached further (ideally by email, recorded delivery, or taping your phone call to them) and warning them that further approaches will lead to a criminal complaint under the Act being filed. The unwanted conduct will almost always stop.

    For more details see, for example, http://www.together.gov.uk/article.asp?aid=1218

    Hope this helps.

  116. Glenn

    I worked as a rep for zenith for 12 months and earnt around £65000 for year. example for u retail is say £10000 take 35% off that = £6500ish =15% commission for rep then take off 40% on the price = around £3500 = 3% comm. that is how it works people

    the product is great, company is fantastic all i can say is that the 3rd praice is good vfm

    regards glenn

  117. Colin

    We have just signed up with Anglian for 14 windows, two doors and a pair of french doors: three of the windows have stained glass as has the front door (a big panel). they started out at a list price of £17k – this was heavily discounted to £7k if we paid cash and £6.2k if we use the finance option. We said we’d think about it. The manager called a day later and offered us another 25% of so all doors and windows for £5.2k – it was near the end of the quarter and the guy needed to make his sales targets – we knew this so pushed hard on a good deal. problem was it was too good and the surveyor has upped the price by £700 to £5950 (standard sales tactics here?). this annoyed us so we got more quotes – the best other quote from a reputable local firm was £11k! So although we’re a bit annoyed at the antics of the sales manager (not the sale sperson who was really good -took his time explaining the features etc and answering questions) we still feel we’ve got an excellent deal. We only had to pay £49 deposit and the rest after satisfactory installation. we’ve gone for the finance deal and intend to pay this off straight away. We’ve read and re-read the smallprint and we can do this with a one month interest penalty – no mention of having to pay the full cash price for early settlement as stated in one of the other posts – actually we intend to pay all bar £100 in one month and then pay the remainder the next month thereby only paying the penalty interest on £100. Also we got them to take of the rediculously high Payment Protection Premium (over £800!).

    Our only concern comes from something mentioned in one of the other posts above. something to do with inferior “commercial” windows. how do we tell if we have got the highest quality “real McCoy” Anglian windows and not some cheaper version that they give us because we’ve not paid through the nose for them? anyone from the industry know how to tell the real McCoy from inferior windows? and wther we’ve had the proper fitting etc?

  118. Whistlekiller

    I sold double glazing for 15 years for various companies. Admittedly, the sales tactics deteriorated as time went on (which is why I packed it all in) but I also found that as time went on customers wanted everything for nothing. This is why even Everest, Anglian and all the other big boys have eventually dropped their prices and this is also why the general standards have plummetted. We all get what we deserve in this country. We drive companies into the ground by demanding cheap prices and then moan when it all goes wrong. Fitters getting paid peanuts (cos they’re on a percentage) guarantees a botched job. Work it out for yourselves.

  119. Very dis-satisfied customer

    I wish I had NEVER EVER heard of Anglian Windows. I ordered windows from them because I thought they had a good product – I didn’t consider the bullying and coercive tactics of their salesmen and managers. I was duped into taking out finance that I neither needed nor wanted, and now they refuse to do anything about a problem with a bow window – saying the problem had been there before, which it hadn’t. Stay clear is my advice. I still cannot believe all the worry and hassle I’ve had to endure just because I wanted three new windows & a new door. Re: the posting before mine – the fitters might get peanuts but that’s not the fault of the customer. Anglian prices are high, the discounts they offer bring the price down to what is reasonable. Too many Chiefs & Salesmen and not enough Indians is the problem at Anglian, along with a total disrespect of customer integrity. You answer back and they’ll try and bully you into submission one way or another. I’m now off to see my solicitor.

  120. Neil M Stroud

    Hi All,
    Yet another Anglian Rep here. I have been through part one and parts of part 2 and will keep looking. On part two there was a fellow rep, whos approach was to leave a quote a normal list price and a showhome price! Great!!
    I think this is the way to go, we should leave a price for people to think about. But also maybe we should have a 1st call discount as well if someone does want to take advantage?

    Now take into consideration plz that we have to pay fuel etc and we are trying to earn a living in this crazy world. I like my job but hate the pressure sales.

    Really what I want to know is what can we or what shall we do? Someone please help us or we will be doing the same high pressure sales in another 20 years, and it crazy!

    thanks Neil

  121. Sue

    Thanks a lot for this site! Very informative. Am just cancelling Anglian appointment!!!!!! Can anyone recommend a good local firm for double glazing and french doors in the South East London area? We don’t want miracles or mega cheap prices – just a decent deal with no hassle.

  122. Barb

    Re: Weatherseal
    A young guy in the street caught me as i was in the garden – asked if I wanted a rear window converted to a door – seemed like a good idea, mentioned to him Mum would like conservatory, thought nothing about it! He asked for phone number and I gave it – STUPID!! Got phone call saying someone would call tomorrow at 11am if that was ok – said yes STUPID again! Weatherseal rep called at 11am nice guy we thought, told us he was normally a trainer and didn’t do this sort of thing normally. Said he used to work for Anglian, while talking to us about conservatory he left a call on his mobile unanswered, saying if he answered they would want to know what he was doing, and they owed him money and if they knew he had gone to Weatherseal he would lose the money they owed him???? we beleived him. He carried on with his sales spiel and convinced my Mum who is 70 that her dream of having a conservatory could happen if she wanted. He asked what her income was after she said she really couldn’t afford £1900.00 and before I could step in with a reply, she told him exactly how much money she had coming in to the house!!!!! IS THIS A NEW TACTIC OR HAS EVERYONE EXPERIENCED IT? The salesman then asked how much her outgoings were, and she answered again, he then worked out on his calculator that she would have about £650 per month to spend and she could afford a conservatory. She was not sure and kept saying so, but out friendly salesman kept going back to his calculator and making phone calls to his office trying to reduce the price, and we fell for it! He kept telling my Mum that she could say NO at any point and he would pack up his stuff and leave – no hard feelings!!! This ploy kept my Mum feeling guilty and she let him go on and on and on until he started filling out a blue form with his drawings of what the conservatory would look like. He mentioned ONCE that if she signed there would be no going back! IT DEFINETELY DID NOT CLICK WITH US THAT HE MEANT IT as he said it in such a jokey manner – he did not point out the NON CANCELLABLE CONTRACT at the top of the page he had been drawing on, so long story short-ish, Mum signed, then after having very little sleep that night she changed her mind. A nice man from the office telephoned that morning and Mum said she didn’t want the conservatory after all, man at the office asked what he could do and mentioned the post dated cheque Mum had signed for £2000 deposit, Mum asked for cheque to be destroyed, nice man said would come round to see us. Later after basically the same sales talk from man, Mum got really upset and left the room. This is when “nice” man pointed out the not very large but BOLD text saying it was non cancellable. I asked what could be done as Mum had just sent off letter to GE money that morning cancelling the finance agreement that she had signed along with all the other stuff the “nice” salesman shoved under her nose. He replied that he would come back the next morning and let me know what could be done, but he wasn’t confident that anything could be done to help. I asked what would happen if it couldn’t be cancelled, his reply, the conservatory would be built and my Mother charged for the work carried out!! Is there anything I can do – my Mum is blissfully unaware of the NON CANCELLATION part and is happy that she said no and I havent the heart to tell her as I am afraid for her health if I do.

  123. Jayne Dixon

    I can’t believe how many reps are on this site complaining about how much fuel they use and suggest we should commit on the night because otherwise they have wasted time and money ,Plenty of people won,t buy from a corner shop because a supermarket is 25p cheaper on an item ,these sales reps must have plenty of money if they really believe people should not get quotes they obviously know mnothing about budgeting and money and believe if they quote 10,000 they is absolutly no reason to ask someone else who might quote 8,000.
    I am so angry with these sales reps i had a quote for a non standard conservatory 6 weeks ago ,and have just had them back to quote again now they have a sale on of 40% off ,when thy gave the quote i said thats no- where near 40% off he replied i gave you 20% of 6 weeks ago.which would be fine if i had been told this, which of course i had’nt .
    For the record Leadwise in Banbury did my first ever house and they were preety good i remember just a local firm still going over 15 years later.
    Had the very hard sell from staybrite thought the windows were great but could not buy from them out of principal 4+ hours later.( gary ).
    Coldseal bad service 5 years later.
    I now want a conseratory but after reading through all the messages here its depressing knowing who to use.

    RADLEY windows in Oxford anyone have any feedback?

  124. Im

    Anglian delayed commencement of work even though they were told time was of the essence of the contract. They made false promises and misrepresnted facts. We asked to rescind the contract before any work was done and for a refund of money paid. Anglian demanded 30 percent of contract value for costs incurred and loss of profit. Have now applied to local county court. Meantime Anglian continue to hold over 30 percent and no work can commence till this matter is resolved

  125. Jude

    Does anyone know the name of the managing director at BAC ? They have left my elderly parents with a door that they can’t lock, and are now saying that it’s nothing to do with them (BAC) and that my parents should contact the supplier to sort the problem out.
    If your thinking of using BAC take this as a warning !
    Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

  126. David

    I have just had the unpleasant experience of having a salesman from Zenith Staybright visit my home. All I wanted was a straightforward presentation of the product and a quote for a door. I was subjected to a lengthy presentation, then a persistent high-pressured attempt to close the sale despite saying ‘no, I want to look at alternatives’ several times. The sales shenanigans included questionaires, phone calls back and forth to the ‘area manager’, and the tactic of dropping the price from an inflated starting figure, but only if I agreed that night. The better price came with strings attached – being part of their ‘showhome’ scheme – and all I wanted was a door! In the end, the salesman got rather unpleasant, accusing me of being a time waster, ‘playing some sort of game’, and being a twister of my own words. I replied ‘if I am playing a game, it is YOU who made it a game’, which is no more than the truth.

    All this has left me rather annoyed – unnecessarily so, because the product did seem to be pretty good. But because of the unscrupulous use of pressure techniques (basically, psychological manipulation that aims to suppress rational decision-making), I will not invite any sales rep from Bowater Home Improvements group to my home again. When will these people learn to respect the independence of mind of their customers, and not try to pull them about like putty?

    I also had a visit from Everest. Their representative was far more straight-forward. He showed me a sample, explained their ‘homeaccount’ finance package (do ask about the APR though – I didn’t see a figure for it, and forgot to ask the rep), quoted the price and discount structure. There was a 10% buy-it-now inducement in the pricing, but no pressure selling techniques. The product looked very good, but seems somewhat overpriced even allowing for the discounts offered – so I’m still looking round. The thing is, though, I would be quite happy to talk to Everest again in future.

    But Bowater? NEVER!

    Thanks for this website, I wish I found it earlier.

  127. Sara

    ANGLIAN WINDOWS…My husband and I decided to get a few quotes for double glazing and our first one was Anglian Windows. He arrived 15 minutes, good start, and then proceeded to ask if we’d received a promotion code, of course we hadn’t. he got straight on the phone to the manager begging for the lowest promotion code and saying “no lower than that.” So here was the start of our three hour nightmare. A 15 minutes presention was shown to us which actually took and hour, with no samples or anything.
    He eventually went to measure the windows and insisted we needed a front door, oh and french doors that have only been in for a year to be told the total cost will be £16K, we just laughed. he then brought it down to £10k if we had a board outside the house, so I bartered with him, eventually getting him down to £7k. We had no interest in signing up that day it’s alot of money and he would not take NO for an answer. Infact he insulted my other half saying he was naive and is one of those who “just sits on the fence” this is where we should have asked him to leave but didn’t. After a few raised voices and myself wanting to leave my own home due to intimidation we eventually saw a product three hours later. He would not leave until he got a sale and from his atitude I can see why people give in just to get rid of these rude people.
    As for finance I wouldn’t take from them if they offered me it on a plate! It’s all a con.
    We did however last night after two weeks received a call from the salesman who has now been promoted to Manager asking if we were still interested. We have already signed an agreement with a smaller company who was only with us for 20 minutes, but guess what…Anglian matched the price of £3K, what a surprise, over half price difference! After 15 minutes of having to hear he horrid voice on our phone we were still naive people and are fools not to go with them. I think we are sensible people and realised we were going to be stitched up.
    So for all you others out there we sympathise with you and what you’ve had to go through. Don’t call Anglian Windows for a quote they con you!!!!

  128. Phil

    I’m hoing that this site will help me avoid any disasters I would otherwise have walked straight into.

    Has anyone heard of / had dealings with Peerless Windows, West London or Tudor Grove, Hayes?

    I’ve had decent quotes from both but can find no customer comments on the web for either.

    Thanks

  129. colin h

    Amazing……! After all the TV shows, articles in newspapers and all these letters on the web you still invite a direct salesman into your home, duuuuuuurrrrrrrr or what? Then this person travels miles, often at night (tired, fed up, with their family at home) paying for their own fuel and payed commission only, to your house. They get told at the door, before any greeting or shred of descency has been shown, “I only want a quote, I am not signing anything today. My partner is not here (even though we told your company he /she would be(first lie)).”

    Then you say the famous words “This won’t take long, will it? 10 mins is ok, isn’t it? We don’t want to see a sample (even though you said on the phone that you woud make time to see the sample(another lie))and we told them on the phone we are not realy interested but they would not take no for an answer”. You can say no on the doorstep but not on the phone, who are you trying to kid here?

    It goes both ways. If you don’t want to be lied to, don’t lie. If you don’t want to be sold to, don’t invite a salesman to your house. And if you don’t want your time wasting, don’t waste someone elses time! You all know the stories, you all clearly have access to the internet and prices. So as for being duped, I would question your sanity when you are armed with so much information. You cannot have champaign for beer money. There is no such thing as a free lunch, blah, blah, blah… get it?

    If you want and buy cheap you get cheap, only rubbish is bought at a Dutch auction. Cheap and quality are at opposite ends of the dictionary. If you want quality all round, then you have to make time to be given the correct facts – all windows are not the same, that is why they want to spend time showing you their window, then you know what you are really buying. Would you buy a car without asking about it or learning the features of that particular model? Would you buy a house without visiting it? Of course not.

    There is a phrase in the sales industry ‘buyers are liars’. Until the general public starts treating these people who arrive, after an invitation, at their door as humans and are honest with them the sales industry in general will not change – it was created by the public, only they can make it change to be the way they want it.

    Last comment, roughly 33 percent of people who say that they do not want/are not able to buy on the night actually do. Roughly a further 33 percent come back to the company within a short period of time and aremainder had no intentions of buying in the first place. So you can thank this final 33 percent and all their waffle for making it harder, and more expensive, for everyone else!

  130. Ash

    Im a sales rep for anglian windows and im quite disturbed by some listings posted here about my fellow salesmen, the reality of it all is that if were first in the door were opening up the market for the competitors in the industry and thats why if were told “well think about it” we know other quotes will be involved and we know we wont be able on 99% of the time be able to compete with smaller trade companys on price because of the shear difference in the quality of product and im saying this off 6 years of experience fabricating upvc windows and doors for these smaller comapanys. the most popular sale i get is for a front door beacause mr and mrs brought a cheap front door 4 years previous and the lock, glass or seals had gone which alot of local firms produce with cheap materials and machinery from the arc. so basically with anglian youre paying pounds fro quality, you wouldnt expect to pick up a new merc for the same price of a rover would you? the moral of the story is the last salesman through the door will be the one who takes the order and by this time mr and mrs have but a distant memory of anglians unique product because the costumers are so confused with all the different features and specs of everybodys product. If anybody on here wants a very fair quote, no drop prices or gimmicks etc and lives in the derby or nottingham area then let me know then ill see what i can do as regards giving you a quote upon appointment where no pressure selling tactics will be implamented, cheers ash

  131. David

    In response to the postings from Colin H and Ash, I have the following points to make:

    1) Unless someone has already promised to buy, it is presumption on the part of the salesman to expect to close a sale on the night, merely because he has been invited to someone’s home. Most people (sensibly) just want to see the product, get a price, and make a rational decision in their own time without pressure. If the salesman wants a promise that someone will buy before he makes a journey, then he or his company should make that clear when the appointment is being made – but no sensible person is going to make an open-ended promise to buy. So it is you who needs a reality-check.

    2) Colin H writes “If you want and buy cheap you get cheap, only rubbish is bought at a Dutch auction. Cheap and quality are at opposite ends of the dictionary. If you want quality all round, then you have to make time to be given the correct facts – all windows are not the same, that is why they want to spend time showing you their window, then you know what you are really buying. Would you buy a car without asking about it or learning the features of that particular model? Would you buy a house without visiting it? Of course not.” This is all very well. Most buyers want to weigh up quality verses price, and know that you don’t get owt for nowt. But this does not justify any expection to close the deal on the night. I would add “Would you buy the first car that you have seen, and at the first price you are offered? Of course not.”

    3) From comments I have seen elsewhere, some salesman seem to work on the belief that if they don’t get a sale that night, the company never gets the sale. I don’t believe that is necessarily true, though I guess salemen get told that during their training, to justify the selling techniques they are being taught. After my experience with Zenith, I approached three other companies for quotes. None of them sold to me on the first occasion. But once I made my mind up, I placed my order with one of the companies. If if you treat people to pressure tactics in the belief that ‘no deal tonight is no deal ever’, that belief becomes self-fulfilling. Zenith Bowater blew all possibility of persuading me to buy their product because of their salesman’s pressure techniques and rudeness.

    My general advice to buyers is: if possible, get along to the showrooms of a few reputable local companies. Most should be able to quote a a reasonably accurate price based on measurements, on the understanding that the price is subject to a survey. By all means let them know you are going to get other quotes. As for me, I’ll be very reluctant to invite a direct salesman to my home again – I’d sooner go out and shop around.

    David.

  132. Simon

    I recently had a visit from Anglian for ~ 21m of fascia and soffit + 26m barge/soffit + 30sqm shiplap cladding in wood effect. Sales person stays for a lengthy 2.5hrs and did the usual 1hr of calculations that I can do in 5mins with a calculator. Initial figure was around 12k then reduced to 8k when I looked shocked. Then the usual malarky ensued with a call to the area manager (who took the call especially ;-) ) and they came to a figure of 5.2k.

    Personally I don’t think this figure is far off but still a little high but I really felt insulted since we started at 12k and wormed our way down.

    Why don’t the salepeople get to and honest figure where they made a good margin but don’t make you feel like your spiraling down a rollercoaster.

    I felt unwilling to proceed after out of principle as I expect more from Anglain given their rep in the industry.

    I run an IT company….if I played these games with our customer in what is a very competitive inductry out be shown the door.

    Simon

  133. Ash

    simon e-mail me your email to ashday_1@hotmail.co.uk and i will give you an honest figure, cheers

  134. Peter Hallam

    My house has Anglian double glazing right through fitted by the previous owners, the warranty was transferred to me, but fell to pieces, just like the hinges on my windows, at the first claim I made.

    Well within the warranty time, several hinges broke meaning that we could not open these windows, because we could not close them afterwards.

    I contacted Anglian Windows at Bodmin, Cornwall, and was told that these hinges were now obsolete and they could not do anything about it!

    While this was going on, the patio door became hard to open and asked several times for an inspection from Anglia under the terms of the warranty, I was told that the runners had worn to extent that the bottom of the door was now rubbing the frame and as the worn runners were now obsolete, they could not do any thing, I had to replace the door so we could get in and out of our house,

    While this was going on, we were getting phone calls asking if we wanted Anglian windows, and despite having having our phone number removed from the lists, they continued to ring us, in fact when I firmly explained why I did not want Anglin products, the call taker suggested I should upgrade to new windows with stronger hinges!!

    All went quiet, but now the buggers are coming to my front door, (Which we now have problems with opening and closing) asking if we want Anglian Windows.

    What does it take to stop Anglian Windows contacting me about windows that will not open of close, the crap after sales, not forgetting the useless waranty>

    I am going to follow this message with a phone call to Anglian, following a phone call to the press, I have had enough of them

  135. Don

    I have been trying to contact Supremo glaxe by phone as my elderly parents have been having no end of problems re poor installation (windows are lop sided and handles are breaking as a consequence) and poor customer service. The phone number that he has been given just keeps ringing with no answer. Any tips as to who to contact (before I go to trading standards)?

  136. Richard

    Hope you had the sense to pay by credit card.

    Just let them sort it out

  137. Richard

    What is meant by awaiting moderation?

  138. Guy Carberry

    to avoid this area getting spammed, i have to manually approve every comment. until i approve it, it’s in moderation. Not my language, the language of WordPress.

  139. keith

    Found this website while trying to find info on Finest English Conservatories ( FEC). They bought out the BAC conservatory business side in july 2000. We had a conservatory built by them in 2001. We now have a roof panel misted up but FEC are no longer in business ut would appear. None of the paperwork we have mentions FENSA or GGF so we don’t know where to turn, does anyone out there have any helpful advice?

  140. Justine

    We had an Anglian rep round to quote us for 2 replacement windows. He spent 1 1/2 hours with us, concentrating on how other companies are poor in comparison. We asked him to change his sales patter – hard sell, will you sign up today for ‘great’ discounts – and just briefly give us the info on Anglian windows and a price. He clearly got irritated with us and at one point asked if he should call it a day!!! 3 1/2 weeks later we stil havn’t recieved a quote. I understand that the sales reps do not necessarily reflect the quality of the workmanship of Anglian. However, after this experience I wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole. We are happily using a local firm for our windows.

  141. nigel

    We purchased Anglain Windows last year. Got a really good deal but the install was full of problems that took 3 months to sort out. Luckily, I managed to cancel one of the cheques in final payment which managed to get their attention! The guy that came back to do the rework was really good and sorted the problems out, so although it was painful to deal with the regional office, they did provide a proper service.

    We had quotes from several companies, had the usual silly prices, discounts and phone calls from the sales team. However, we also had the phone call a few days latter which went something like this (in call cases) “you had X round the other evening for a quote we think he may have been a bit conservative with the discounts – we’ve had another look at the price and if you go ahead now you we can take Y off the final price he quoted you”. I don’t believe they would have called if we had signed on the night! Lesson – never sign on the night.

    We now need a new back door. I will ask Anglian for a quote as we want a matching Mahogany finish (Royal Knight) – any body know of a company that does a decent door in a similar finish?

  142. Richard Corbett

    Message for Keith – Hopefully you paid by credit card or finance agreement. Under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act, get them to get the sealed unit replaced. Otherwise buy one through a local glazier each time they go.

  143. Richard Corbett

    I was told that Anglian used to have a clause on the back of their contract to the effect that “the product you have been shown will not necessarily be that which is installed” Anyone know if it’s still there?

  144. Harry

    Following my post way back in April concerning worn hinges on a very old set of Anglian windows; They finally fixed them on the third call. The fitters were fine; courteous and efficient, but let down by horrible, aggressive and arrogant office staff, and desperately inefficient stores supplies.
    Nobody has given the office staff training in practical and civilised telephone service, so they work on a “Deny it First” basis. That means they actually turn down business, because it complicates their day and I now know why:
    Everyone hates them and they know it, so the office staff have just given up. Call it the Millwall syndrome.

    Upper management are more civilised, and they know that the product isn’t bad, but they don’t actually know the names of their juniors who are supposed to provide the customer service, and these lower ranks are very bad news. Perhaps they fear them.

    Normally the stables would be cleared out from the top, and one would wish for executive heads to roll, but in this company it’s the groundlings who need to go, and quick. Then the product can win.

  145. Harry

    My comments above concern the lower office staff, but there are some upper level people who really need to be booted. I refer of course to the sales directors responsible for the commission system the sales staff work to.

    Here’s a fundamental lesson for the Anglian guys who we all know read this site : Commission shows you don’t trust your own product, its Quality and Value.
    It’s no good whining that the first thru’ the door opens the market to competitors. Equip your sales people with the information and demonstration tools to inform your (potential) customers.
    – Employ fewer people.
    – Pay your people a good living salary.
    – Give them zero flexiblity on price, and don’t let the office managers blow their credibilty by discounting.
    – No bargaining.
    – No discounts for signing tonight.
    – No seasonal discounts.
    – No discounts at all. Period.
    – Save their time so they can get to the next prospect, and Mr and Mrs can watch TV and have supper.
    – Set Targets. You know what they are: Let their incentives be the tiniest fraction of their earnings, but increase their salary if they bring in business above target, and dismiss them if they don’t meet target.
    – If they cut prices, take it off their salary.
    – Back them up with office staff who are courteous and know the status of work in hand, and with stores supply-lines that don’t force customers to wait 4 months for parts.
    – Don’t Lie, and don’t let your staff lie.
    – Never, but Never, allow the office staff to assume the sales function.
    – Always, but Always, insist that the office staff log every call from a current or potential customer, and track every job sheet.
    – Only allow the customer to sign the office copy of the job sheet as completed. Never the fitter, and always leave a copy signed by the fitter with the customer.
    – Utilise the Satisfied customers as character references, locally if at all possible.
    – Accept that the product has competition. Beat it on Quality throughout the organisation. Or take a hike. Plenty of organisations have survived with reputations intact.You have to rebuild yours, and your product isn’t bad. End of sermon

  146. richard corbett

    Good sermon. It lists ideals which in reality cannot be lived up to. In the main because your first statement is wrong. Anglian so not employ in salesmen – leastways not at the sharp end. They are all commission only salespeople. Think of the money that that saves the parent company! They can dismiss them instantly, pay them what they like, telephone after their departure from a house and out their commission – which is the real reason suddenly they are able to reduce the price. In most cases the company are not taking a cut it is the salesman, who was given first bite at the cherry. The only recourse the salesman has is to leave. Problem is most other companies operate the same system.

    I agree absolutely with the comments re office staff. This is not exclusive to Anglian – we all have cases of bad or lack of service everywhere. In particular to companies who have paid staff to back up their commission-only sales people. It would be well if those staff reflected for a moment as to whom was paying their wages and make an effort to be more helpful. The trouble is probably, the targets set by a company for its installation branches, and any successful customer complaint will reflect in the bonuses of the branch mangers and their departmental heads.

    One last thing, I’m intrigued to know on what specialist knowledge you base the assumption that Anglian’s product is not that bad? Which product? All the levels?

  147. Phil

    “Free Survey and Planning Permission Application”
    Be warned Anglian recently carried out a survey and applied for planning permission on a conservatory for me. I specifically asked them if my deposit would be returned should permission be denied and they said yes of course, the service was “free”. When it was refused they hit me with £1300 costs. Planning applications only cost £135. I have written and telephoned but despite that great customer service they are supposed to have they simply ignore you. Have nothing to do with this bunch of crooks, please be warned.

  148. Richard

    If you paid by credit card Phil, leave them to sort it out.

    Really, I would advise anyone to pay for anything over £100 by credit card or specific finance arrangement. The free protection you get is enormous. From the Office of Fair Trading leaflet entitled “Equal Liability – section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974″ (Yes – that’s how long we’ve all had this free protection!) Some preamble then “Such an agreement covers both the credit and the supply of goods. In effect, the trader sells the goods to the finance company which then supplies them to the customer. As the supplier as well as credit grantor, the finance company assumes responsibility in BOTH CAPACITIES”

    All the rest available usually at your local library.

  149. Richard

    ………………I should have added of course, don’t use a credit arrangement where the supplier and the credit company are the same. If the one goes bust or refuses to comply, then there’s no recourse to the other. So if they say “We have our own credit company”, beware.

    Full details in the OFT leaflet.

  150. Mike

    I have worked in the conservatory industry for a national company, not Anglian, for over a year and I would like to explain a few points. I won’t mention my company as this is not a sales pitch :P

    1. Although it makes sense to compare prices, truth is after several presentations the average customer will be sick of listening and will have forgotton most of it. Their are huge differences in the quality of windows and conservatories, but since all appear similar, when a customer doesn’t buy on the night, their main reason for choosing a product eventually is if they liked the rep and most importantly the price. Hence most want the business on the night as despite getting on well with my customers 99% of the time, as I am not pushy, I get very few calls back. They go with the local guy who tells them its the same quality as mine, which it never is, but we can do it cheaper, which they can as it’s a vastly inferior product mass produuced in eastern europe, not locally as is often suggested.

    2. Although it may seem longwinded, you wouldn’t spend thousands of pounds on any other product without knowing what you are getting so why would you do that with conservatories and windows? The reason local guys can be cheaper and quicker, is that they buy all their stuff form large scale manufacturers, so they have little to show that you haven’t seen many times before. Most conservatory roofs are made by the same 2 companies, K2 and Ultraframe and the frames are kits they buy in, hence set sizes. Guaranatees are worthless unless backed up independently by Fensa or the GGF. The vast majority, 80%, of local businesses cease trading after 5 years.

    3. price drops are there for a reason, to make the company profit and me also. As has been explained previously, a rep who drops his prices is reducing his earnings, so why complain about it? Do shop staff offer to work for less an hour so the shop can reduce its prices? Asking for one best price is setting yourself up for a fall, as I have seen reps do this claiming they don’t do what others do and call their boss but give their best price. Guess what? It isn’t, but if sounds believable you will sign. Peronally I give the list price and the lowest price I can go to and make some commision. I am supposed to go through some calls, but I skip them and only call my boss if I need a bigger discount than I am allowed to give. That price is always a good deal and should be signed up for quickly, as I cannot hold it. Each manager has a set discount fund he can use, so if you turn it down and he uses it elsewhere, don’t complain if you can’t get the bargain you wanted. Generally I make £100 to £200 on a heavily discounted deal, which for several hours work for a self employed person is peanuts as you have to keep your car on the road etc. Anybody who thinks that other sales enviroments don’t overcharge when they can is naive. If Tesco can do a 2 for 1, why can’t they sell it half- price all the time? I worked in retail for 20 years and I can assure you most sale lines are cons. They are bought in a month before at an artificially inflated price and then reduced to their real value for the sale. In anycase, those of you who said they would like one price only are naive at best and untruthful at worst. If one company started to sell at their lowest economical price for all customers they would go bankrupt. I can guarantee you, that customers would still expect a discount as its the norm, so when they didn’t get one, they would buy with another company. People don’t like to haggle, but they like to feel they got a bargain, hence discounting exists.

  151. Simon

    Good news after my bad experience with the long drawn out ditherings of Anglian salespeople. In response to my posting on here an Anglian guy suggested I contact him for a fair quote…..which I did! He came up with a very realistic figure without the theatricals. I see a number of people on here have had quality issues. Will update you once the works done as I’ve always been happy with my Anglian windows and post-sales support. Had a couple of issues but engineers have been dispatched prompty and if not they have covered the cost of a 3rd party.

    Hopefully Anglian sales will learn that being pushy can actually yield less results and recurring revenue in the long term!

  152. richard

    Simon – don’t forget to pay by credit card and check that the quality you will be getting is the one you’ve been shown.

    Regretfully, being pushy usually results in more sales on balance.

    Normally the Anglian local manager will phone 2/3 days after the visit and kick all the salesman’s commission out of the deal. It might pay you to hang on before you say yes – if the manager knows of your contact that is.

  153. Richard

    Mike – don’t forget that FENSA was created by the GGF, both being funded by the trade. In the event of a dispute, one might wonder where their sympathies might lie. Often if they become involved they, they simply pass correspondence between the involved parties. Just pay by credit card or specific finance agreement. You need not worry then with regard to whether or not guarantees will be honoured, companies will go bust, or insurance-backed guarantee companies will have disappeared. See my postings above.

  154. Mike

    Agreed Richard, the FSA regulations mean that an independent finance company and credit cards are safest. In fact over 90% of my sales are financed as my company is FSA registered.

  155. Ash

    cheers for the deal simon your a star,you have my number just let me know when the works completed, hopefully satisfactory so i keep my 100% costumer satisfaction up. alot of untrue theories regarding anglian on here too regarding managers calling a few days later etc, and mike you hit the nail on the head there too mate. in this world if you want quality you have to pay for it, if you want something to last you pay the difference but with anglian, in particular with all the reps i know who are very decent people we offer exceptional value for money as simon will vouch for with his past and recent dealings with us. we dont rip anyone off the fact of the matter is we dont all earn lots of money off each job we sell. ive never ripped anyone off and always do my very best to match a prospects budget.

  156. Phil

    Richard, Thanks for the reply. Sadly I foolishly paid by cheque so I can’t get help from my credit card. I will ask the GGF to help but I am not holding out much hope. Hopefully people will read this site and not make the same mistake.

  157. Harry

    Delayed response to Richard Corbett(Sept 5th)…”Anglian do not employ in salesmen – leastways not at the sharp end. They are all commission only salespeople. Think of the money that that saves the parent company! They can dismiss them instantly….”
    Surely a mistake, if they are appointed Sales Agents, they have enormous protection through the Law… Are they really so naive? It must be me. As to the product being not so bad, you are right again, I haven’t got detailed knowledge, but what I have seen isn’t trash. The fundamental problem is still that, like so many companies, they are shooting themselves in the foot.

  158. Richard

    Harry

    Harry

    Firstly sorry for not having checked the awful grammar!!

    I think you will find that commission only agents operate under a franchise that can be withdrawn at any time. Depending on circumstances, it might be possible to win an expensive court case, but there is no legislation I think that protects people in that situation. Remember thay are self-employed – not employed.

    As to the build quality of plastic windows, it is very hard to tell quality. After all, they’re all bits of plastic with glass in them. The only rough guide you have is British Standard kite marks and BBA creditations – and that’s assuming they haven’t “borrowed” them from another company’s brochure! This happened locally to me and was proved by Trading Standards. You pays yer money………………..

  159. Richard

    Ash

    Yours of the 16th. Just some clarification please. Does your 100% customer satisfaction claim, extend to the company? Are you speaking for those customers who may have been affected by the part of the organisation that alledgedly went into liquidation a year or so ago? Only it occurs that we would not be having this exchange if it did. Perhaps you can confirm that the reverse of your purchase agreement no longer offers the advice that a customer may not necessarily receive the product that he/she has been shown? I have only heard this and cannot therefore confirm it is so.

    Managers DO call in a day or to and DO knock out the salesman’s commission. Other postings here testify to that.

    Against what do you compare your product to decide that it is good quality and/or exceptional value? Or is that just whay you’ve been told?

    You shoot yourself a bit in the foot also. You say you’ve never ripped anyone off and you try and meet their budget. Therefore if the customer agrees your first price you still insist on offering all the available discounts which then impacts on your commission? I don’t think so!

    Just to belt and braces the deal, Let’s hope Simon has paid any deposit and will pay the balnce, by credit card!

  160. Richard

    From the Direct Marketing News Magazine

    “Anglian Windows director departs
    Marketing 14 Jun 2006

    Anglian Windows marketing director Andrew Pound has left the company without a job to go to.

    Pound joined the window-replacement firm in February from Masterfoods, where he was head of direct marketing for the company’s European dog food portfolio.

    Anglian Windows has been hampered by a slowdown in the housing market.

    In April it was forced to close its Port Talbot factory and in May it made 40 people redundant at its Norwich factory.

    Pound was at Masterfoods for four years, having been loyalty manager of Pedigree Europe and UK director for customer-related marketing. He began his career at London PR agency Charles Barker in 1992.”

    It is published that Anglian lost £1.4+M last year and had to move their head office (which was sold) into the factory to help satisfy creditors.

    Deal with them by all means – but pay by credit card!!

  161. Richard

    Of general interest here…………..

    “December 20, 2005
    Downturn Forces Anglian Windows To Move Out of Horsford Manor Headquarters
    Downturn hits windows firm, Anglian Windows and forces them to move out of their Horsford Manor headquarters as part of a restructuring plan.

    (PRWEB) December 20, 2005 — Anglian Windows has been struggling in the face of a slump in consumer demand and a slowdown in the housing market and has announced that it will be moving out of its Horsford Manor headquarters as part of a restructuring plan designed to make the business more competitive.

    And it has embarked on a series of measures to drive down costs, improve efficiency and increase sales, which the company says are starting to bear fruit.

    Figures published today show that Anglian’s parent company, Naiglan Holdings, reported an operating loss of £485,000 for the year to the end of April 2, 2005, compared with a profit of £19.4m a year earlier. When interest charges were added in, Naiglan reported a pre-tax loss of £12.5m compared with a profit of £3m the year before.

    Turnover also fell, down to £277m from £311m in the previous period, as fragile consumer confidence hit sales of conservatories and windows.

    As part of the restructuring plan Anglian has decided to close down its loss-making kitchens business. The division, called Living Design, was based in Scotland and sold kitchens through a network of agents.

    David Rimmer, Anglian’s deputy executive chairman, said it had been losing money for a number of years. “It was acquired in 1994 and to be honest it had been struggling for some time,” he said. “We have been scaling it back for the past three or four years and we decided to close it.”

    Anglian has also shut its manufacturing plant in Port Talbot in South Wales, which manufactured windows for the commercial market. Production was moved to the company’s Rochdale site.

    Mr Rimmer, who is running Anglian while chief executive Larry Condon recovers from an operation, said shutting the factory was designed to match production capacity with demand.

    “The closure of Port Talbot means we have the right production capability going forward,” he said. “We do not see sales recovering this year as the market is still very tough, but we have the flexibility to step up if that occurs.”

    In Norwich, Anglian is moving its senior management team out of Horsford Manor to the company’s main factory site in Anson Road.

    Horsford Manor itself is being put up for sale, but the company’s social club and sports facilities will be unaffected and are not part of the sale.

    Mr Rimmer said the move would save money but, more importantly, bring the senior managers closer to staff and make it easier to share ideas.

    “Anglian has more than 20 buildings in Norwich alone which isn’t very efficient,” he said. “Our reorganisation is about bringing people together so they can work more closely and more productively.”

    Posted by Industrial-Manufacturing at December 20, 2005 02:11 AM”

  162. Ang

    Supremo Glaze!! I had a phone call one evening from a very nice man, asking me if I would be interested in a front and back door free of charge?! Of course I would have been stupid to have refused this offer, so he told me that the supervisor would ring me up to explain the deal and book an appointment. The supervisor then phoned and to cut a long story short, the deal was that photographs would be taken before and after the work was carried out and would be used for their advertising. I explained to “Mr Supervisor” that I had no funds and would need an answer as to whether the photo’s would be used prior to any agreement being made. “Mr Supervisor” assured me that a decision could be made, therefore the appointment was booked. On the date of the appointment Mr Salesman called to confirm the time of the appointment, whilst he was on the phone, I questioned again whether a decision would be made and that they didn’t expect me to sign any paperwork, his reply was that you had been misinformed and that wouldn’t be able to happen as the decision comes from Head Office. I then cancelled the appointment with Mr Salesman, who incidentally was very understanding and polite. 30 minutes after the appointment time, “Mr Supervisor” called me, I explained that what he had originally told me, had been dismissed by Mr Salesman, he then went on to say that’s not what he had said and continued to talk over my voice aggresively! I thanked him for his time, said goodbye and ended the conversation. 2 minutes later “Mr Supervisor” called back again, I said to him please do not phone my number again, or I will phone the police and report him for harassment, he then called me a liar!! and put the phone down on me!. This man “Mr Supervisor” is a disgrace to the company Supremo Glaze, (whoever they are!) and needs some serious lessons in Customer Service. I have my own business, if I spoke to my customers the way he spoke to me, my business would be gone! P.s they have an issue with women controlling the finances of a household!!!

  163. Zenith Guy

    Right, let’s get things straight. I read a bit further up and am probably about 2 years too late to comment about the Zenith rubber gasket system. We are the only company to offer you a hard lip beading system on the outside of the window. The reason there is a rubber gasket on inside is for the simple fact that if the window was to break, we will simply come inside your house, remove the gasket and replace the glass. This would not be possible if inside and outside was hard lip beading. This product and feature is patented only to us.
    Now to answer the selling style. The reason we try to get a deal on the night is because a) our discounts are always changing, b) prices are always going up. If I left you with a rock bottom price based on the discounts available on the night and you then called me 3 months later for the work to be installed, our discounts may not be as generous, but I bet you’d expect to pay the same. I have turned business away for that.
    Also, make our lives easier, don’t want everything and expect to pay nothing. Keep designs and openings simple and necessary so we can keep it to your budget. The number of times someone has asked for a crazy number of openings on one window. Are 6 openers really necessary? NO!
    And finally, we give you the best product. Expect to pay a bit more. Don’t have a local guy with the black rubber gasket system give you a quote for £5k and expect us to match it. It’s insulting.
    I hope I have been of some help.
    Cheers

  164. SW London Anglian Rep

    “Just to tell you up front – we’re only interested in a quote and we’re not signing anything tonight”:-

    Are you telling me up front that you want me to do my utmost for you in terms of demonstration, design and pricing but you are not open-minded enough to consider paying me for my efforts by buying my product? Or are you warning me that you have been easily sold to by pushy salesmen in the past and that I only need to do my job well without being pushy, win your trust and confidence and I’ll have an order at the end of the night and a satisfied customer? A bad rep will be put out by the initial comment and may become unpleasant to deal with. A good rep will recognise it as a sign of weakness. Either way the comment serves no purpose.

    “We think it’s a good price but we need to think about it” or “we’ll be able to let you know on Tuesday” :-

    You mean you want to get other quotes or you already have them booked in or they’re already in the post. Why not just say so? What’s to hide? And who are these window companies that somehow can’t spend the extra ten minutes working out the price on the spot so you can change designs if need be?

    “We’ve got no idea of prices”:-

    Stop trying to be clever – you know our first price will be higher than everybody else, so why not say “we’ve been quoted this by these companies, can you compete?” and I’ll be done in twenty minutes NOT two hours or more.

    “You’re the first” :-

    Well if that’s REALLY true then most likely we initiated the appointment from a cold call so of course we are going to try and close a deal from interest we have created rather than do all the designing only to have some cheaper local form steal the business. If it’s NOT true then you’ve just invited the rep to start at a high price and gradually drop to get a deal which will take anywhere from ten minutes to an extra hour or so.

    Signing on the night:-

    See above. What’s wrong with being asked to sign on the night if the rep has asked you if this is the product and company you’d be happy with and you have said “yes”. The rest is just down to price. And you have a clearly legally worded minimum seven-day cooling off and an equivalent-quality price-match promise.

    The rep doesn’t get paid to go back and get paperwork signed after the weekend, he just has to give up another appointment where he might have earned his living to come and see someone who could just as easily have signed up there and then.

    And if you really are just “wanting to think it over the weekend to be absolutely sure” then why not sign all the paperwork up there and then and give your credit card number over the phone a few days later. If we were willing to process orders without a deposit we wouldn’t ask for a deposit in the first place. You could even write on the contract “order null and void if credit card details not phoned through”.

    “A window’s a window, mate”:-

    Sure yeah, right. They’re all the same and they’ll all last the same length of time and all look fantastic in ten years with a simple wipe-down. Do you want your frames made out of the same stuff used to make cheap patio/garden furniture?

    Which is the better deal? The window that costs “X” or the one that costs double that but lasts six times as long?

    Finance:-

    The discount is now at least 10% of the “cash” price (sometimes excluding certain non-discoutable items) with or without loan insurance, but only if the loan is CAPABLE of running for ten years even if the customer intends to pay it off earlier (GE have to have a fighting chance of making a profit – they’re not a charity). This usually means that over one year the total price paid is close to the “cash” price. The discount is possible only because GE Money pay Anglian for their loan business and Anglian chooses to forego some of this extra profit margin in return for a guarantee that the customer will actually have a method of payment in place by the time the windows come to be fitted. That way we stay in business and can honour our very worthwhile guarantees.

    For those of you that say the finance is a rip-off at 21% APR, well you nearly always pay extra for the flexibility of being able to pay off a loan early (1 month extra interest is the maximum penalty) and we give you 10% off the price so where’s the rip-off? Either the you have the cash to pay in full (which everybody says they do so why ask about the APR if you’re not in the market for a loan?) OR you intend to borrow from somebody so you should look at the monthly repayments over different time horizons and see which is better.

    One more thing:-

    If you’ve bought our products presumably you’re happy with the rep that you dealt with. Well then make him YOUR rep. When you’ve got a problem with an installation or after sales service, which does admittedly happen from time to time, give the rep a chance to sort it out. If you want more product from the rep who has been so helpful to you then ring him directly so he gets his bonus for “self-generated” business and is happy to give you the lowest economical price instead of ringing head office or waiting for the marketing people to cold-call you and talk you into a premature appointment with quite possibly another rep from a completely different sales office who will be on standard commission rates.

    By the way if you don’t like all those phone calls then it’s obviously no good moaning to the canvasser as they don’t have access to the database on which your number is stored – you should write to our head office and/or use the telephone preference service.

  165. Rebecca

    Re: Safestyle – withdrawal of price
    Back in June we had a quote for the whole house to be double glazed by Safestyle. Due to the high cost, it was agreed that we would stagger the installation over 2 separate dates and we agreed and signed a quote for the front and a separate quote for the back. We had the back windows done in June which we are very pleased with. A fitting date for the front was pencilled in for today but we did not hear anything. Upon calling them, Safestyle say that the signed quote for the second installation is invalid as it is too cheap – even though the sales rep sat in our lounge and phoned through the figure to the head office and agreed it before we and the salesman signed the contract. They say that the contract is not binding as the price is too low and want to charge us substantially more. Their Terms & Conditions in the small print seem to back up their comments. What can we do? We don’t want to go elsewhere because we had got a good price and we want the same windows as the back ones. PLEASE CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME ADVICE. MANY THANKS

  166. SW London Anglian Rep

    I can only speak for Anglian, but the sensible procedure would have been to survey both jobs at the same time and verify the correctness of the price on both jobs before proceeding to manufacture either of them. As a rep I would have also written on the earlier contract “not to be released for manufacture until the price of the linked contract is verified after survey”. There are legal time limits in which a company has the right to demand more money AFTER conducting it’s survey anyway – 14 days, I believe – otherwise it has to honour the price agreed. I assume both jobs were surveyed back in June (I’m not referring to the salesman’s initial measurements – they are just used for pricing and it’s easy for a novice sales rep to miss structural items, or for a dodgy rep to underprice a job just to get the order, so the “phoning through to head office” is irrelevant if the rep’s starting figure is incorrect).

    A more sensible option, given the closeness of the two installation dates, would have been to do the whole job in one go and put it on finance and pay off the bulk of it with the money you had earmarked for the first job plus the money saved up since. You would have probably been able to negotiate a further discount for using finance and you would have had a definite price for the whole job before proceeding. That’s part of the reason why companies offer finance – to enable people to take on larger projects than their immediate budgets allow. I just can’t understand why you would split the installations up by only a few months.

    I would read the terms and conditions more thoroughly and maybe also consult the Citizens’ Advice Bureau, which is free. You could also look up Trading Standards.

    Very surprised that they quoted in June and were able to fit in the same month. Very, very surprised.

  167. Richard

    Rebecca – apart from the age-old advice about reading before you sign (too late now I know) Did you pay cash? If not the finance company or credit card company will deal with it for you. Read about the Consumer Credit Act at your local library. It’s probably online – I haven’t looked.

  168. Richard

    Zenith Guy – As my local CID fellow said as we looked at my glazing stood against my wall 15 years ago “Anything that goes in from the outside, comes out from the outside” At the very least, exterior glazing beads attract attention. It would be interesting to see the techical data relating to the tests done as to the difficulty in removing your beading from the outside. My guess is that you are trying to justify a cheaper out-moded system to maximise profit. But then they wouldn’t tell you that would they – especially as it would mean re-tooling the factory? What intrigues me is, when it’s just as easy to produce a window with the beads going in from the inside, why bother with exterior ones ever? Am I missing something? More important is the steel inside the window and sub frames, to give a firm base for the catches and hinges. Otherwise, those self-tapped into plastic can be easily prised out, irrespective of the way the glass is installed.

    The reason I suspect you are told to close a sale on the night, is that a business cannot run on the hope that someone may “let you know”. I think it’s only fair for the public to say yes or no on the night. If the saleman’s done his job, then there should be nothing left to think about.

  169. SW London Anglian Rep

    External beading is a much simpler manufacturing process.

    Think about it. Apart from Tilt & Turn type windows which open from the inside, any combination of fixed panes and openers (or dummy vents) requires precise welding of the frame profiles together so that for a fixed pane the lip is to the outside of the property with the glazing bead inside, but for an opener (or dummy) the lip has to be on the inside so that the cut away bit where the glazing bead would have gone is now replaced by the opening vent’s frame which holds the pane of glass.

    As for closing the sale on the night – that’s what direct sales is all about – taking the product to the customer rather than waiting for the customer to come to you. It’s an inertia sell. These people ought to have the product and they know they really should but they just won’t get round to doing it by themselves. Human nature being what it is, most people are relieved to have got the thing out the way – otherwise we’d have cancellations all over the place – and are grateful to have had someone smoothe the path for them to reach a decision. Where the “anti pushy salesman” conflict often arises is where our direct canvassing turns up the “like-to-shop-around, quote-gatherer” type buyer who we’ve now prompted into action and/or where we try to close a “Yellow Pages” type enquiry who already has other quotes lined up. The other common conflict is people who aren’t really thinking of buying just yet and “just want some idea of price” and somehow think that a special offer price given now can be held for a year.

    If you’re not really in the market then don’t invite a guy into your home who you know full well is paid only in the event of a sale and expect him to give up his evening with the wife and kids to demonstrate his product and design your windows and then be surprised when he asks you to place an order. If you want “some idea of price” then draw your windows, mark the openers and bring them into a showroom – looking and thinking about it and asking for no-obligation advice is what shops are for.

    Another thing – if you like the product and the price has dropped to a level that sounds like a good deal don’t stick to that tired old line “we’ve no idea if it’s a good deal or not” just pick up a local paper and look for a company that advertises with pictures and prices next to them. Obviously a window advertised on price alone must be pretty low on quality as price is it’s main selling point. Hence you know know what the cheapest rubbish will cost and can decide if you’re prepared to pay probably not an awful lot extra for the decent product you see in front of you..

  170. Zenith Guy

    Richard – Sorry, maybe I didn’t make my point clear enough. We at Zenith do not use internally or externally glazed windows. We deliver the windows as an entire glazed unit from the factory. Then we attach fixing lugs (brackets) to the frames then install. So the only way of removing the glass from our windows is from inside the property. Our selling point is the hard lip beading system we use. If we did not have this patented system, then we would just be another internally or externaly glazed window company. Our windows exceed MET Police standards where other windows lack.
    Plus as I read in an earlier comment about us being the Rolls Royce of windows…. this is true. You can’t buy a cheap Roller can you?
    I would be more than happy to demonstrate my point to anyone.
    Anyone looking to have Zenith, be prepared to pay a bit extra.
    Anyone looking to buy windows (from any company) be prepared to have them try and sell to you on the night.

  171. Richard

    Anglian Guy

    I cannot follow your explanation of the efficacies of internal/external beading – I’m ashamed to say I’m not technical enough. A point I *would* make though, is that a neighbour who asked the advice of his house insurers, was told that he couldn’t expect them to cover his contents if he was inviting anyone to come along with a plumber’s plunger and a screwdriver, and take them out. Do you know of any such windows that have the BS 7950 standard for security?

    Your discourse on direct selling was very good! I hope it will help some people to realise what should really be involved when inviting a sales representative into their home. A good salesman – which you obviously are – should be a facilitator. His job is to supply the information and the householder’s job is to decide if that is what he wants. Simple as that. If you’ve done your job properly, there should be no reason for procrastination.Yes or no. There and then. Quote collectors, I should imagine,wrongly assume that all windows are the same and the only difference is the price. Frankly, they deserve what they get.

    …and always pay using credit!

  172. Richard

    Zenith Guy

    I take it those Met approved windows have BS 7950 also?

    It also occurs to me that if your whole window can be manhandled already glazed, then there can’t be much steel in them, rendering the security of the catches weak. Do Zenith run body building courses for their fitters?

    What happens when someone breaks a window? Do you take it out of the house and return it to the factory? If, on the other hand, you are able to re-glaze it on site, then why can’t somebody else take the window out too?

  173. SW London Anglian Rep

    The way windows are normally transported is with the glass sealed units in place but then on site the glass is removed to make the windows lighter and, crucially, to give access to the inside of the frame in order that it can be Fischer-bolted into the brickwork (essentially these bolts are 4 1/2-inch heavy-duty rawlplugs).

    Zenith’s hard-lipped glazing beads are to prevent someone dislodging the (externally applied) glazing bead by shoving a knife down from the top.
    Actually, I thought they’d now changed to an internally beaded system anyway, or do I have that wrong?
    I’d be surprised if the standard fixing method was via fixing lugs or strapping and didn’t involve removing the glass at some point.

  174. Richard

    Many conpanies use that foam stuff don’t they? No bolts at all?

    What about my query ref BS 7950? Do you have any knowledge of that please?

    Can you confirm or not, the allegation I have heard that the conditions of an Anglian contract state to the effect that “The product you have been shown is not necessarily that which will be installed”?

  175. Zenith Guy

    Richard
    Not bad mouthing any companies, but there is a section in Anglians warranty that states “No guarantee is given that the units supplied will conform precisely with the samples.”

    I will look in to the BS 7950 for you Richard. We do provide the safest product on the market.

    If the window was to break, then the rubber system on the inside can be removed to replace th sealed unit.

    All our windows comes with galvanised steel re-informents running through the frames. Our installers always go out in a minimum team of two, and I think two people can handle a window whatever the size.

    A lot of companies still use the “foam stuff” but what tends to happpen is that in hot and cold weather it expands and retracts accordingly, which then causes other problems.

    SW Anglian Rep, our windows are not internally or externally glazed, they are glazed at the factory, so they come as a sealed unit when delivered to the customer, and the only way to take the glass out is from inside the property.

  176. SW London Anglian Rep

    Anglian conform to BS 7950

    The bit in the contract about specs not being identical saves the company from changing all the reps’ samples every time a slight product modification is made. If the product shown to the customer is the “White Knight” premium product then the customer gets the most up-to-date version of that and it is written on the contract (unless there is some reason why the customer requires the lower spec commercial range which has a different spec and a different name).

    Surely you need some kind of expanding foam as well as external sealant to seal up the gaps whatever way the windows are fixed?

    Zenith Guy,

    Without intending to bring into question the quality of your product, do you not concede that the hard-lipped glazing bead is separate from the frame, i.e. not part of the main extrusion?

  177. Richard

    Where is it written on the contract Anglian Man? By whom and when? Whilst I understand that the representative cannot be expected to tell the customer that he is showing them an out of date sample, it still leaves the firm free to supply lower quality. It’s not good just to say you wouldn’t do it. You would say that wouldn’t you?

    On the foam – yes I agree. The point I was making was that some firms use that *only* – no bolts and no other fixings.

  178. SW London Anglian Rep

    I’m not sure what your point is, Richard. We have a product called the White Knight window which we improve and update from time to time. Why would Anglian attempt to manufacture and supply a slightly inferior product purporting to be the same as the premium product shown to the customer? The cost saving would be miniscule on the product itself, there would be the huge expense of running the additional assembly line and we would also be a regular feature in “Which?” magazine and on “Watchdog”.

    It’s just not the same situation as a small local company that shows one product in a glossy brochure, brings no samples, tells the customer “a window’s a window, mate” and then switches to a different “cheap ‘n’ nasty” supplier every few months.

  179. Richard

    Points taken – but you *do* have a lower quality window. The commercial range production line is already set up. How would “Which” or “Watchdog” find out – unless you left a sample of both with the customer? It makes me nervous that you have two qualities of products. When your local sales managers phone the customers after the reps visit and offer to do it cheaper, is it just his commission they take out or is it that they supply a cheaper window instead/as well?

  180. SW London Anglian Rep

    I don’t know what kind of level of commission you think us guys are on but when our window is offered cheaper it is still the same window, just as Harrod’s products are still the same quality on the 1st of January even at half the price. The “Castle” product is for local authority and business contracts but we used to use it as an alternative to offer as a follow up to residential customers who weren’t willing to pay the full price for the premium product, or for people that wanted something with a slightly thinner profile. However, it would be explained at the time of the phone call that it was a different product and being offered by “Anglian Commercial” rather than “Retail” and was a method of following up visits were managers and reps had overlooked to do their own follow-ups. There’s never been any question of switching products without the customer knowing. We would run a high risk of not getting paid after installation as the two products look radically different.

  181. Richard

    I’d guess at 10%.

    The difference is that Harrods customers know they have a choice – cheaper after the 1st Jan. But do you tell your customers that if they leave it till after the rep has gone that it will be offered at a lower price? Doubtful. Lots of people testify here that the Anglian office phones after the rep to lower the price of the product offered. The question of the products looking different is only relevant if the customer is *shown* the product in the first place.

  182. SW London Anglian Rep

    A new customer is always shown the product. The salesman’s job is to convince the customer that it is a superior product and to place an order for it there and then despite the customer often being told they could easily find a cheaper alternative if cheap is what they want. You cannot do that very easily without having a good product with features you can demonstrate. Hence you take a sample with you – you’d be stupid not to. As for the price, well to stay in business a company has to reach a certain average level of profitability. Sometimes that means we can offer a product cheaper if we have reached certain production targets at over the required average price. But if we consistently gave our premium product away at rock bottom prices without trying to sell it for value we would be unable to service our guarantees properly and would probably go the way of vast numbers of smaller window companies who basically compete mostly on price and then promptly go out of business, having supplied a non-branded product of indeterminate source which often barely lasts much over five years.

    If the rep fails to close the deal that night then the main and often only thing the customer will remember 24 hours later is the price, then anyone who comes along and says “oh, our window’s just as good but cheaper, cos there’s no commission being paid to anyone and our guarantee is also for ten years backed by Lloyds of London” is easily believed. Rest assured that nobody goes out to a customer’s house, spends their time measuring up and prices a job without expecting to get paid in some form in the event of a sale, hence an apparently slightly cheaper product is probably rather a lot cheaper than the discerning customer would like it to be. “Lloyds of London”, by the way, is a market place for insurance syndicates to trade and is not an insurance company and does not offer insurance backed guarantees. Also, Anglian’s guarantee is a “complete replacement” guarantee not one based on a token amount of money towards replacement after depreciation (like car insurance).

    It’s also worth noting that most sealed units supplied to the industry only come with a five-year guarantee. Funny how re-sellers conjure up an extra five years from somewhere, claiming an alleged 10 year guarantee on units they have merely purchased from an outside source.

  183. Ed

    We’re just going through the process of replacing all our windows. So far, all the sales reps have been nice and none have pushed us on the night for a signature. Quotes so far are reasonable and quality seems comparably good (we’re avoiding the small local firms and working only with national or regional companies)

    What I wanted to raise was the issue that some reps are making on this site that as customers we should not invite them in if we’re not interested; that we should do our homework. What do you think getting you in is? A form of light evening entertainment? It IS our research. Not many of the more reputable firms have showrooms (e.g. Everest) and so how can we see your product? Also, we want to see your product in our home. Would you spend £10k on a car without driving it? No. So come on, get real. I know there are some punters who are time wasters, but don’t generalise about all of us.

    Secondly, on the issue of haggling and discounts. We know that without much difficulty, we will get 50%, sometimes more, off the price. 50%?? Blimey. If you quoted more realistically to begin with and then negotiated down by a further 10% then people would not feel the process to be such a scam. Do people really ever buy at full price? Really? If they do, please let me have their names and addresses, as I have some fresh air for sale. How would you feel as a punter if you knew that 50% were on offer? How would you know when to trust the price you were getting? Huge discounts breed contempt and mistrust.

    On the question of research, whenever you ask for a “rough price” you always get told that you can’t do that, that they need to come round and measure up and discuss the millions of options that are available. We don’t want you round as much as you don’t want to come round before we’re ready to make a buying decision. So come on.. publish your prices….Aaaaargh!!!

    Come on….. treat us with respect and we might treat you with respect, and vice versa.

    Good luck

  184. Zenith Guy

    I just love going in to a customers house and measuring up their windows. Then before I present price, I ask what they think it will cost…
    First answer I get is “We have no idea how much windows cost, that’s why you’re here.”
    Fine, then when I hand over a price of £15k, they immediately come out with, that’s too expensive!
    Hang on Mr and Mrs Jones, I thought you had no idea how much windows are, yet now you’re an expert and are telling me it’s too expensive?
    Don’t make us out to be fools, and we’ll help you out.
    We want a sale, we have targets to hit, and you want windows. Surely it’s a case of you scratch my back etc.

    Ed, if I said to you I’d replace all the windows in your house for £10k, you’d probably think that sounds fair depending on number of windows. However, if I then turn up at your house and you start picking out the more expensive of our door designs, fancy window designs etc, then the price won’t be £10k. But if I said that it’ll be £15k based on designs, no doubt you’d throw back at me and say “you said it’ll cost about £10k!” No-one will give you a price list, because how on earth can it be realistic without seeing the product? If I charge £1000 a window, and another company charge £500, who will you be inviting round? I wouldn’t even get a look in would I? So what chance is there of a sale?

  185. SW London Anglian Rep

    I had a couple of complete time-wasters the other day. It was obvious they’d been in and out of showrooms all day long (including ours) and had stacks of different companies’ brochures.They knew what design they wanted and even showed me a Zenith door design which they had “found on the internet”. It was quite a drive to get there and to save time I said to them “you seem to know pretty much what you want so if you’ve got a budget you’re trying to stay within I’ll be able to quickly measure and design something suitable or at least be able to tell you if it’s not feasible”. Response – “we’ve got no idea of price – you’re the first quote”. They even said that a friend had told them we’d be the most expensive and therefore not to bother with us. So why deny the other quotes if they already knew we were going to come in higher. What’s the point? In the absence of further infomation I had to go through the standard procedure necessary to have any chance of a deal i.e. list price less normal discounts for several windows done at the same time to give a price valid for six or twelve months, then a lower price based on any current promotions with whatever time-limit is applicable (which quote collectors always seem to have an issue with – if they can’t make the decision within the time-span of the offer then they should just take the normal price and accept that it’s more expensive and go elsewhere if price is really they’re only consideration). There was a further complication in that there were several variations on the design and it involved a considerable amount of stained glass. We then had a full-blown row when it came to discussing methods of payment. Of course they had the cash, like everybody does. I tried to explain that we give a discount to people who use our finance, which normally is sufficient to cover about a year’s interest, but the husband kept cutting me short and then came out with the standard yet illogical statement “why don’t you give a discount for cash?”. Imagine Debenham’s trying to get you to open a storecard account by saying that it’s 20% APR or more AND there’s an extra 10% added to the price for using credit instead of paying cash (I believe they too offer a discount incentive for using their credit facility). The guy also kept going on about how he “knew” we would start at a high price and “happen to have” some kind of offer on (well it was clearly displayed in the showroom so I obviously didn’t invent it, did I?). As it turned out he had an exact price in his mind that he wanted to keep within and needless to say it was way below what Anglian could have done the job for. The reaction to the mention of finance made me somewhat suspicious of their ability to pay us on completion anyway. So I surmised that what they really wanted was for me to give up my peak earning-time free of charge to give them my expert advice on designs and configurations, taking into account frame thicknesses, sightlines and provision of fire escapes, with absolutely no intention or ability to place an order with me. If they’d fronted up with their budget or other quotes I could have at least been in and out in twenty minutes without having to waste an hour and a half of mine and their lives (plus my journey time) and could have avoided getting into a heated discussion. Everthing they wanted to know could have been done in the showroom if they had come armed with measurements.

    I rarely get into unpleasant situations with customers as I consider myself to be quite professional but sometimes people just take the mickey and fail to respect the fact that the rep has a job to do.

  186. P.SHAW

    Weatherseal!!!- We had a very similar experience re. salesman from this Company- large price quoted which was eventually dropped and even threw in a “free” door. Although quite expensive was sold by the apparent quality of the product. In the event I must say in fairness that the quality is good, compared to some other cheaper Companies.As with most of these companies no proper check was made of quality of installation- were more interested in getting the money! However their after sales service turned out to be appalling, in spite of much vaunted free “helpline”. It took 6 months to obtain a simple adjustment to the door (which took 5 minutes). Similarly several months and many phone calls to obtain promised cash back and Insurance backed guarantee. Keep away!!

  187. Ed

    So, companies cannot give “rough” quotes until they measure up and discuss options with the client (seems reasonable)

    Customers won’t make a decision until they have had a selection of quote (sensible). Because of the huge range of “offers” and discounts, nobody know what the final price is, and because of monthly targets prices fall towards the end of the month

    Salesmen complain about customers not making a decision on the night (if the price is in budget and the product good enough why not buy it… because we don’t know if there’s a better deal), and customers complain about salesmen being pushy.

    *sigh* seems we’re all as bad as each other.

    So… how do we break this cycle?

  188. Ed

    OK, further to my first post, here’s an example (things have moved on):

    We have a 1930’s semi (extended) with 12 windows.

    : 4 windows required leaded top windows (2 of which are 5 panel bays)
    : There is 1 window which is 4 panels, no leads required.
    : 2 windows are single panel (no leads)
    : The rest are double panel (no leads)
    : We don’t want matching sightlines.
    : Pilkington “K” glass to be used.
    : Minimum 10 year guarantee backed by long standing independent insurer (e.g. Lloyds of London)

    The quotes:
    Everest £19,000 after discounts
    A reputable, long standing and recommended regional company have quoted £8,000.
    Out “3rd” quote is coming in this week.

    I was expecting Everest to be bit more expensive, but I was not expecting them to be almost 2.5 times more expensive. Are they 2.5 times as good?

    So, based upon the about information, what do all those company representatives who are viewing this site have to say?

    How, as a customer am I meant to know where on earth the realistic price lies? Should I expect the price to start falling the closer I get to the end of the month?

  189. Zenith Guy

    £19,000 does seem a lot Ed, and I really would not consider spending that much with Everest, or any company. That seems a ridiculous price for what you are mentioning. I would like to know how many windows in total there are? A 5 part bay window is classed as 5 windows to us. I’m not quite sure how you class a double panel? Is that 1 window divided in to 2 pieces?
    Obviously without seeing the house/windows, it’s hard to comment.
    However, a lot of customers seem to gloss over other points that they must be charged for (by us anyway) things like toughened glass if the window is below 0.8m from the floor. Any box sash removal must be charged for. If you have two 5 part bay windows, there are 10 bay charges (bay poles) to be added.
    I hope that may have helped?

  190. Simon

    Hi,

    I chose Anglian to replace my front of house windows and front door. I got the price down to what i thought to be reasonable from the initial crazy price the salesman gave me. Some of the salesman patter included “you do not pay untill you are happy” these words stuck with me.
    The windows/door were fitted on the 25th September. At the end of the install the 2 fitters packed up their stuff and gave me a shout for the payement. First thing i noticed was the windows were filthy, bits of silicone all over the place, dirty hand marks on the glass and PVC. I asked the fitter if he was going to clean them to which he replied i have. That was enough for me, i politely told him i was not paying because i wasnt happy and sent them packing. Once they were gone i carried out a close inspection of the job and made a list of 8 or so issues i was not happy with. I then phoned Anglian, explained my findings and was told someone would be round in 3 days. After 3 days he came albeit 2 hrs late and carried out his own inspection. He agreed with my list of problems and also to his credit added some more. He left a copy of the schedule of works and told me someone would be in touch. 3 and a half weeks later and not so much as a letter from Anglian. During this 3 and a half week period i have sent a letter to both my local branch and their head office outlining my concerns and dissapointment, still no reply.
    I was concerned and supprised at first considering i still have not paid them their money. The schedule of works clearly states though that the money should be paid once the work is carried out.
    I,m now not sure how long to leave it before i attempt to contact them again…any ideas??????
    On the whole i do believe Anglian have a good product but in my case the product was installed by idiots. The customer is basically non existant.

  191. Richard

    Ed

    Some observations on your recent 2 postings.

    I should imagine that windows are not the same as buying some other goods. For instance if you have decided on a make and model of TV say, then you can tout about and find different prices for exactly the same product. With windows I should imagine you are paying for what you *can’t* see, in many respects. They all have to look like windows at the end of the day, but whether – or not – there is any steel inside, or whether or not the pvc is 100% pure instead of mixtures of the raw material, bits of old drainpipe, grandma’s old bucket and a bulk out of the shortfall with chalk, which saves much money and leads to discolouration, is a chance largely you have to take. For some sort of quality check, look at the BSI and BBA and ISO accreditations, phone the local OFT to check on complaints, take notice of the guarantees offered but don’t believe then whole heartedly. They would say that wouldn’t they? Why not give the saleman your budget figure – or at least the figure you are prepared to pay, ask to see his price list as he works it all out (he should have nothing to hide. ALWAYS buy on credit for a free, near-perfect guarantee.

    Having done this small amount of research you should then be in a position to present a saleman with a list of specs, a budget figure and a credit demand that should make it job done in less than half an hour.

  192. SW London Anglian Rep

    Ed

    8k sounds quite reasonable, but if you’re going to pay that kind of figure don’t go for a small local company that simply buys in the frames and/or sealed units in and sticks it’s own insurance-backed guarantee on them.

    Everest are thought to be the best basically because they said so in a long-running adveretising campaign in the 70s/80s on the back of which they try to maintain very high prices on what I have recently heard are windows no longer made by Everest themselves but simply bought in from “Ultraframe”.

    “Pilkington K” is a brand name for a particular type of Low Emissivity (Low E) glass. Although some Councils refer to it by name they are incorrect in doing so as there are alternative (and often better) versions available.

    There is no such insurance company as “Lloyds of London”. This is merely the name of a market place in which insurance underwriting business is traded by various insurance companies.
    Worth noting that an insurance-backed guarantee does not offer a like-for-like replacement, but simply a contribution towards the cost of replacing a faulty component.

  193. SW London Anglian Rep

    To Simon and any others who have had trouble dealing with Anglian’s installations department. Try involving the rep. He’s earnt a commission from selling you the windows in the first place and, if it involves finance, he will earn a further commission once the job is signed off as satisfactorily installed (what we call a “banking”). If he’s smart he will also realise that there is the chance of further commission if you order more stuff at a later date and if you recommend other customers. Therefore any rep should be willing to help simply due to self-interest even if not through his own sense of professionalism. Certainly you should at least be dealing with the showroom manager. Bear in mind that fitters and their managers are paid to get a job done and have time and cost targets to achieve like any other business. The same people skills possessed by the sales side of the business and used to persuade people to buy our product can be turned round and used by the customer to get the rep or manager to persuade the installations people to sort out the meek and don’t-like-to- complain type Mr & Mrs Jones more urgently. Otherwise what happens is that priority is given to the whinging awkward bloke that rings up three times a day and threatens to stand outside the depot with a plackard because his back door needs a very slight adjustment and we can’t get someone out to see him until after the bank holiday.

    That’s what you’re up against – other customers that complain more vocally about very minor things.

  194. Simon

    South west London rep, I certainly don’t fall into the category of whinging awkward bloke, maybe I should though if I understand correctly what you are saying. Like I said previously it is coming up to 1 month now since I last had any contact with Anglian and I still have not paid them the money. In your opinion how long should I leave it before I turn into “whinging awkward bloke”? I would have thought that they would have been desperate for their money, obviously NOT, is this normal for Anglian?
    This whole affair has left a really bad taste in my mouth, I had planned to get the remainder of my windows replaced next year by Anglian but the chances of that happening now are Zero.

  195. SW London Anglian Rep

    Bit surprised they aren’t doing anything if you still owe them money. My installations department would have called me, the rep, to try and sort something out.

    The thrust of what I was saying, though, is that the “whingeing awkward bloke” will probably be seen to first even though his problem is relatively minor because everyone keeps getting an earful. My suggestion is that you who do not want to behave like “whingeing awkward bloke” need to get someone inside the company to do it for you. Why not say to the rep “I promise I will call you personally when I want the rest of my windows done, rather than wait for the marketing to call and claim most of the commission, so long as you deal with this issue for me”. The rep then has the promise of future business at a self-generated own-lead (much higher) rate of commission. Not only does he have a strong incentive to help out on your behalf, but when he comes to do the rest of your house he can afford to give you the best deal at the best time without jeopardising his own earnings. Then everybody’s happy.

    The sad reality is that most customers don’t even keep the rep’s business card handy no matter how helpful he was and simply wait for a marketing (cold) call and are surprised when a different rep shows up and goes through the standard sales process.

  196. Tokat

    Hi just a quick update, sorry not posted for a long time and to be honest i really dont feel like going into everything at moment but it is now coming up to 3 years scince we had our work done and we are still in the middle of a legal battle with Anglian ( who can’t even get their fact’s right between their own departments never mind us our solicitor or the court’s…. they didnt even get the figures correct on the court order ) yup you heard right 3 years scince work commenced and nearly 2 years at court!!! We had wanted them to simply fix the problems which they wouldnt do until we had paid the final installment HAH yeh then we wouldnt have seen them for dust. We had planned on getting an extension built shortly after having anglian here and using them again for the extra windows and doors but we can’t build our extension until this is solved, as we cannot take out one window and door that is in existing utility as it will compromise our case (they can then say we did the damage to them when we removed them). So my now 12 year old daughter is still sharing a small room with her 10 & 8 year old brothers in bunk beds!! We have lived in an undecorated house for all this time as we dont know if the products will be refitted when all this is solved. and we have had 3 years of headaches and stress with no end in sight. So if anyone is at all interested in my advice ??? save yourself a lot of heartache go with a smaller local company off recomendations ( they are more likely to please as they NEED your custom and will fix problems as they rely on being paid ( not string you along for 3 years in hope you will give in just to see an end to it … after all they can afford it cant they ? i mean who is a few hundred or so disgruntled customers to them ? and those are the ones that notice the problems … i shudder to think of all the pensioners treating themselves to something nice for their old age…) agghhhh im rambling now just so frustrated anyway thanks for listening

  197. SW London Anglian Rep

    A few hundred or so disgruntled customers is a few hundred too many. And each of these customers has friends, family and neighbours who they’ll moan to long before complaining to us.

    Try writing to Alex McNutt, the new Chairman. I’m told he’s very focussed on customer satisfaction.

  198. Simon

    Tokat, you have me worried now!! 3 YEARS!!!!!

    SW London Rep, you say write the Alex Mcnutt, like i mentioned previously i have written to “Customer Services Dept” at both my local branch and the head office and still have had no reply at all.
    I guess if i was to write to Mr Mcnutt my letter should be addressed to himself at head office?
    Yes i,m still most suprised that i have not heard from them due to the fact that they have not been paid. All they have from me was my deposit which totals 16% of the price.
    Maybe they have forgotten about me and i wont ever hear from them again..LOL what do you think the chances of that are?

  199. Tokat

    Hmmm well simon if it’s anything like what happened to us you wont hear from them until several months later when a court order lands on your doormat.
    The last work to be done on ours was in march 2004 between then and around june/july 2004 we had contact with them in the form of letters and tel, us asking for someone to come and inspect the work and have probs fixed, them asking for the final payment and promising to fix the problems afterwards ( they even suggested a cheque that they wouldnt cash but simply hold onto until we were satisfied !!! ) then nothing until two weeks before xmas 2004 when we got a court order.

    SW london rep as we are in middle of court proceedings i can no longer go to customer services about this everything goes through the solicitors, although that doesnt stop me getting sales calls every other month LOL

  200. SW London Anglian Rep

    When I say “write to Alex McNutt” I obviously don’t mean “customer services”. Whether it’s in legal proceedings or not he’s the man at the top and is the one most likely to make a decision in your favour if the circumstances and history dictate that it might be an appropriate gesture. But it might well be that Anglian have a reasonable case for expecting most if not all of the money outstanding before they undertake to remake any product. One of my customers had a set of French doors which didn’t quite close smoothly without the lip catching on very hot days and they had paid in full, yet we were quite prepared to give them a complete remake within the minimum manufacture time, so I’m surprised that you are having so much trouble.

    Simon, of course they haven’t forgotten about you. You owe them money so it’s bound to re-surface eventually, it just takes time going through the admin. But to fix your problem you need to get on the phone to your rep or local showroom (or whichever showroom took the order). Letters should only be used as proof/confirmation of what’s been agreed, phone calls get immediate attention and you’ll normally find out quickly who you need to deal with. Have you spoken to the Regional Manager? He would be responsible for all the local showrooms AND the installation depot.

  201. Simon

    SW London Rep, I have telephoned on numerous occasions, not 100% sure if it was the regional manager or the installation manager but each time the secretary took my name number and contract number and each time i have had no reply!!
    As for paying them more money, the sales rep made it very clear to me you dont pay untill you are satisfied, this statement was the possibly the clincher for him making the deal. My problems are also a little more than a not too smooth door. I am out of the country at the moment so dont have the full schedule of work in front of me but heres a couple of items.
    1. 1x glazed unit has a manufacturing fault, inside of the unit their is desecent (sorry about the spelling)
    2. 1x glazed unit has deep scratches in it where the fitter was using a screwdriver to insert the beads.
    3. Numerous 40-50% of beads have deep screwdriver marks
    4. 40-50% of beads not mitred properly.(stands out a mile)
    5. Silicone used where “small gap” should have been used
    6. Silicone applied with the fitters big toe. Those were the words of the guy who came to see the job after i didnt pay.

    Like i said previously i believe Anglian have a good product but the instalation was below sub-standard.

    I bought these windows thinking i was getting the Rolls Royce of windows.(salesmans words) Imagine going to the garage to pick up your new Rolls Royce and it was filthy and full of scratches..LOL

    TOKAT. I realy hope my situation does not escalate to anything like yours has done. I am back in the UK in 2 weeks and will be making an extra effort to contact Anglian if they have not already contacted me. I hope you win your case and look fwd to hearing the out come.

  202. SW London Anglian Rep

    Simon

    I think you need to first get the names of the people you need to be dealing with and second do not wait to be called back but simply request that they locate where the person is while you hold or give you a time when they will be at their office and try later. Get the name of the girl(s) you speak to as well and treat them nicely. And for God’s sake try ringing the rep like I suggested – I see no mention of this so far.

    Payment on satisfactory completion – yes you are not expected to pay IN FULL unless the job is complete, but if you check with Trading Standards I think you’ll find it is considered unreasonable to withold a large proportion of the balance if the work is only slightly flawed.

    The sealed units are easily replaced as are the damaged beads. I’m not sure what is meant by “small gap” but you could get an estimate for someone else to finish the work and use that as a benchmark for how much to withhold.
    Bear in mind that Anglian have to be careful of customers that order goods with no intention to pay and who will use the slightest flaw to justify it. Much more common than you would think, which is partly why many well-intentioned small companies go out of business. Anglian certainly will not incur further expense unless they believe the customer has been reasonable in the amount witheld. Everything you have described above sounds quite minor, yet you have only paid 16% of the price.

    I would make it quite clear to them that you have not witheld payment for this long intentionally and would be willing to make further stage payments perhaps as each item is rectified. Note that Anglian’s contract allows them to charge interest at 4% above base on outstanding balances due.

  203. Tokat

    hmmm you keep mentioning ringing the rep … when i worked for Anglian I began by giving my customers my contact details and after a major B0$$0k$n& from my sales and area managers i had to stop. their words were along the lines of ‘ dont give out your contact details as you will never be off the phone dealing with problems .. thats what customer services are for’ i dunno maybe that was just my area ???

    Your phrase ‘Bear in mind that Anglian have to be careful of customers that order goods with no intention to pay and who will use the slightest flaw to justify it. Much more common than you would think’ brings back awful memories im afraid as this is basically what one of the senior managers accused me off doing after i contacted him begging to send someone down to see the problems and i assure you I paid a heck of a lot more than 16% of the balance, and the amount I retained was actually decided by the mortgage company as I financed through AFS ( same gentleman above claimed Anglian had no record of this ) and that was the amount retained by the mortgage company until all works were complete and the property re valued. If it had been less or more that would have been the amount retained I did not decide ‘well im not paying x amount of pounds’ and if you see my post above where i stated they wouldnt even send someone to inspect until we had paid !! ( they even suggested a cheque that they wouldnt cash but simply hold onto until we were satisfied !!! ).

    And as for asking for names when contacting for future reference… that is if those people stay with the company long enough to mention you have spoken to them previously!!

  204. Simon

    SW London Rep.

    I take on board everything you are saying.
    Yes on the day the install was complete i did withold the money. But from that day (over 1 month ago) i have not been contacted from a single person at Anglian with regards to my payment!

    “Small gap” is a building material used to fill spaces where silicone is not suitable. Silicone shrinks and discolours over time so you would not want silicone used on certain areas of the window instalation. The guy who came to inspect my job from Anglian agreed with me totaly.

    You are correct i have not spoken with the rep, like i said i am out of the country but will use this tactic when i return.

    I will if i can get to speak to them make it clear that i am prepared to pay more of the money. The difficult thing has been getting past the secretary!! Like i said before numerous phone calls, 2 written letters and not a single reply from Anglian.

    The 16% i paid was to the Rep as a deposit when i signed the contract. I certainly am not being unreasonable about the remaining balance. NOBODY has asked for the balance so how the hell am i supposed to give it to them?

    I will keep all interested on this forum informed of what if any progress i make.

  205. Richard-A

    Anglian / Safestyle.
    Hi all. We have just “suffered” quotes from bothe Safestyle and Anglian sales reps. Why, after all of the comments listed above do they still insist on this stupid £17,000 but I can let you have them for £8,000 if you are mad enought to sign on the dotted line just to get rid of them after the hours of torment!. The Anglian (female) rep came back for a second go and by 9-15 PM, yes PM, I almost threw her out of our house. How can they try to misslead people with their finance offers? It looked like a con to me. Why don’t they walk around the house and then say ” on a like for like, same style and number of opening windows, you are looking at XYZ pounds, subject to a full survey”. Most other professionals can give you a quote for work withing 10 or 15% so why do we still have this play act of “I will just phone my manager”. I would not employ someone as a field based sales rep if they had to “check with the boss” on every job! Just like most people, we NEED windows so we will have to buy them from someone. Any chance of a monthly voting system to see which company get the highest score for areas like Sales rep, surveyer, installers, aftersales, punctuality and finally price. Thanks Richard.
    ps. the prices from the two companies was within £60- so it is now down to the different seals in the opening windows

  206. Justine

    My complaint seems so insignificant after all I have just read………

    After inviting Anglian to give us a quote and never getting it, I now am being pestered by Anglian via the phone to take up the quote. Bizarre! I have had several calls – during which I ask them to remove me from their data base.

    Poor communication at Anglian, and not a great advert for custmer care.

  207. simon

    Justine,

    The customer care is non existant in my opinion. Its unbelievable after reading all the Paraphernalia about how your expierience whith them is going to be second to none, and then to find the customer service is a non entity.

    SW REP.

    My wife has tried calling a few times since Friday both times using mobile phone numbers given to us by Anglian, i believe these were the numbers of an instalation manager and his henchman. Niether mobile call was answered and no messages returned.

  208. stephen

    Got my windows fitted two months ago by imperial windows in surrey, as they were recommended to me. Every thing went smoothly. The fitters knew what they where doing and were well experienced and efficient. Very happy. Recommend them anytime.

  209. SW London Anglian Rep

    Richard

    If you decided to put your house on the market would you put it on for the highest value you thought you might get for it OR would you put it on at the lowest price you would be willing to accept in order to avoid any haggling and save everybody’s time?

    I note that you mention the price being within £60 and it being down to the difference in the seals. So price is almost your only criterion – you really think Safestyle are on a par with Anglian? And you wonder why companies like us try to close a deal on the night?

    Justine

    I would hazard a guess that both parties (you and your partner) weren’t present during the quote or that you asked for a quote to be put in writing and posted to you or said that you had several other quotes booked in for that day. Any of these would be indicative of a customer likely to base their decision mostly on price alone and many reps wouldn’t waste their time unless the customer indcated a strong preference for Anglian.

    Simon

    Why do customers ring me on a Friday after office hours with a query that clearly relies on the admin staff being there? Likewise I suggest your messages will be answered after the installations manager switches his phone back on first thing on Monday.

    Stephen

    Oh, well done to Imperial Windows – they bought some windows and put them in correctly on at least TWO occasions – your’s and the friend’s that recommended them.

    I appreciate that a few people have some grievances on here against Anglian but that’s only to be expected for a company that does hundreds of installations every week.

  210. simon

    SW London Rep.

    Easy tiger.

    FYI information i have tried calling every day of the week and got the same result as my wife got last Friday.

    Stick that in your pipe and smoke it! Only trying to bring some light humour to this blog not being disrespectfull by the way.

    As for them doing hundreds of installations per week, surely by now then they have had lots of practice and shouldnt be having all these grievances? Also their customer care dept should be top class considering all the practice they have had.

    Just to give you some more background on my case, price was not my only criterion.I got one quote and one only from Anglian, i,m still satisfied they have the best product, its just all the other stuff that lets them down.

    Today my wife is going to try a different tactic of bombarding all the numbers we have all day long. I shall let you all know how it goes.

    Cheers
    Simon

  211. Direct Sales Pro

    Quite amusing reading the comments on this site regarding salesman and customer’s. I have been in the home improvement industry along time and have had alot of success. These are my thoughts briefly- firstly; The direct sales industry has generated more self-made millionaires than any other business, so attracts both good and bad. Secondly- The good sales person realises this industry is a number’s game and is not about who has the best product but who has the most leads. I could have the best, most reputable product known to man but if I am not sat infront of someone showing them it then I won’t make money. Finally; The customer is our obstical, not every customer wants to spend a fortune on plastic windows,they may want cheapies to tide them over until they move, there are many reasons why each customer’s needs are and the price they imagine it will cost are different. It is the salesperson’s job to identify the need,work out where the customer has priced themselves and then try and extract a little more money. Also, when the salesperson does identify a customer who is looking to spend top dollar that is where they make they money. I used to tell my saes people when they informed me the customer wasn’t interested etc,”Look, the industry we work in has reputation similar to secondhand car dealers and estate agents, so unless these people are mad why on earth would they want you in their home at 7pm at night, they must have had some intrest”.

    On the issue of British Standards, just remember these are only minimums, and when all is said and done these products are only plastic.

  212. simon

    Update.

    Tried all the numbers we have, all the “direct” mobile numbers etc etc. Eventually got some girl on the front desk at the local depot who took our number and said she would pass it on!!! i wont be holding my breath.

  213. SW London Anglian Rep

    I tell you what, Simon, I’m curious.

    Post on here the depot number the and job number (three digits beginning zero, then five digits) and I’ll see if I can find out what’s going on.

  214. simon

    SW London Rep.

    Like i said previously i am out of the country, i actually work in Brazil.

    However i am home this coming Tuesday if i still have heard nothing by then i will post the job number etc.

    Either way i will continue to post untill the matter is resolved.

  215. Tokat

    Lol good luck SW London rep, as in my case each seperate department heads didnt know what was going on with the others so i will cross my fingers for you a ‘rep’ to find out anything. (( walks away chuckling ))

  216. stevie

    i just wanted to say that my husband worked for Anglian Windows as the factory supervisor about 5 years ago. He is no longer there but says that in his opinion Anglian are some of the best quality windows available today.

    He thinks that although they may be a little more expensive you basically get what you pay for with the quality.

    Also as a note to anyone having Zenith windows which I have in my home the gasket goes moldy and is impossible to clean. They are about 8 years old so I dont know if they use a different rubber now but I would certainly not recommend it!

    I am now having to pay a fortune to have it replaced!

  217. Midlands Anglian Connie Rep

    Hello all
    I have just been introduced to this site by what was to be future Anglian clients. They loved the product and price given. I had made no attempt to close on the night and was also to price windows for them. On phoning with the price, any deal was stopped dead in its tracks by the comments that have been posted here. The lady did not even want the windows price. Having spent three hours reading the last three years’ comments, I can see why and respect her decision. I also thank her for letting me know of this site.

    To say I am appalled is an understatement. I make my living by being as honest as I can and gaining the trust of the clients. That is paramount to selling, because if a customer does not like the rep – they will not buy – full stop. If the company then botches the installation, doesn’t communicate with the client, and generally gets things wrong, I don’t get any recommends, which is a sizeable chunk of my income lost. All companies, not just Anglian, must make more effort to increase customer satisfaction. Now that I have seen this site, I will make a greater effort to attend installations and hopefully stop the types of comments that are appearing.

    To the customer I would say that I, the rep, am your point of contact. Any problems, please use me. It’s what I am paid for.
    As for pushy salesmen with their offers on the night – that I am afraid is the industry norm. Conservatories are slightly different because of their larger order value, but windows/doors/rooftrims are there to be sold on the night, because all the customer ever remembers is the price. Most perceive a window as something that fills a hole and can be opened in summer. It is the salesman’s job to expose any objections and smokescreens, find the customer needs and budget, and work inside the parameters. A good rep will leave the customer feeling happy that they have got good value for money and looking forward to the installation. A good rep will know when to go for a deal and when to back off.

    Customers – if you like the product and are happy with the company, please talk to the rep. He is there to deal, he would rather walk away with a small commission for the night’s work than nothing at all. If you don’t like the product etc, politely say you don’t wish to deal, irrespective of price. that should stop the managers “on the night” phone calls and the rep should get the hint and leave. But please remember, you have invited him into your home because you have expressed a desire to buy. His job is to sell. The free quotation does not exist with any company. He will try to take you out of your comfort zone, which is do nothing at all. How he does it is up the individual skill of the rep but it should never end in a shouting match.

    Customers – do a little research prior to the visit. Go on the web. Ask around and see if anyone has experience of the company. Try and approach a rep directly if possible. Customers normally keep some sort of record. If a rep brings in self-generated business he will receive 5% finders commission. Most will gut to basic price just to get the 5% – I do.

    I am going to finish now as people get fed up reading long letters. But I am going to conclude with one fact. I have recently ordered Anglian windows/doors/rooftrim and conservatory for our new house. They will be fitted over the next four months. I have ordered on quality and value for money – not price. Even to me Anglian windows are dearer than some companies! What the installation department don’t know is that I work for the company. I aim to keep it that way and see what happens. I will keep you informed and when they are all in, I will be happy to let prospective buyers come and see for themselves or not!!

    If anybody has any problems in my area or would like a realistic price for their Anglian conservatory, please contact me here – I will be monitoring.

    Again, many thanks to Mrs H if you are still monitoring.

  218. SW London Anglian Rep

    Having offered to try to find out a bit about Simon’s problem and had a sarcy response from Tokat, I find that no-one then posts for a while, except another Anglian rep. What is this then? A board just for people to moan, so as soon as someone offers to have a go at fixing something everyone goes quiet?

    Such is the nature of direct sales, I guess. I am constantly dumbfounded by customers who say they have a complaint about an installation that “wasn’t finished off properly” and yet they were quite happy to sign a “satisfaction note” at the time to say the job WAS to an acceptable standard (hence the name “satisfaction note”). The fitters don’t get paid without this “sat note” so part of my pitch is a suggestion that the customer thoroughly examines the work done before signing the note and to ring me if there’s any problem or disagreement as to what was expected. Minor things I can believe could be missed but the way customers describe it you’d think the house had fallen down. It WILL be fixed – that’s what the guarantee is for – but please don’t make such a drama afterwards when you the customer are quite capable of saying “the rep said x,y and z was going to be taken care of before I had to sign anything”.

    Connie Rep

    At least for windows, rarely is it the product they don’t like. It’s almost always the price, but, as you no doubt know, the customer won’t just come out and say it, will they? They go through this kind of hidden embarrassment routine of saying “we need to think about it”, “we’re not sure about the frame widths – it’s a bit chunky” or “we’d like to see what other products are out there” and then are surprised when the rep probes a bit deeper. What they mean is it’s too much money. Why not just come right out and say it? The need to see other products seems to mysteriously evaporate when their target price is met.

    Simon,

    Details please and I’ll try to sort something out, if I can, when I get back from Florence on Monday.

  219. Midlands Anglian Connie Rep

    Hi SW rep

    Your comments are spot on. I am pleased that ive found this site. there are some genuine grievances out there, one in particular i am spending a lot of time mediating for the customer, but i am doing it because it is a genuine problem that needs sorting. Also he had the gumption to contact me for help.

    But what the public doesnt realise is the sheer size of Anglian. you can confirm last weeks net turnover was just shy of 6.5 million as published in the weekly mag. every penny accounted for in somebodies home. Conservatories alone was over 2.5 million. that is an awful lot of idividual homes and customers visited in one week. it is hardly surprising that the odd one goes wrong or is not completed on time, but i can confirm that the probs do get sorted.

    this site is set up as a problems page.fair enough but in the interests of fairness why not make it a general comments site?

    Again any Anglian customers? potential customers who would like help in pricing or problem fixing i am here and not going away!! I rather like my company and its products and think it has a lot to offer the general public

    please use me and SW Anglian rep. we have both stood up to be counted. use us and your own rep as a first point of contact for trouble shooting.

  220. Guy

    Midlands Anglian Connie Rep – Please expand your idea about general comments? Do you mean for all glazing companies etc or a general Anglian comments site? The 200 odd comments on here are a as a response to my original posting but the thing certainly seems to have taken on a life of its own! I still think that the original idea of having both good and bad comments is relevant and people like you enable both points of view to come across.

    Thinking about it – your idea of a general site would probably be a good idea for Anglian to setup themselves. They’d get big kudos for that.

  221. Midlands Anglian Connie Rep

    Hi Guy

    Thanks for responding. it was only on closely reading your header that i realised that you have tried to set the site up as a general forum. i got here through a problems general search. would it be possible to change your header from sales tactics (which seems to have been gently sidelined) to a more open debate forum.

    i think the reason for the large response is that everybody has got to have a house with windows and doors which will eventually need replacing. it then becomes a bit of a nightmare for the majority of people who dont really understand the industry and they look to these sites for guidance. if a balanced view can then be given it should be of enormous help to both sides.

    my expertise is conservatories which tend to be slightly different in that they arent usually essential replacements ie rotten windows etc. they are normally bought for the cost effective way to make extra living space. however the selling and service problems are usually the same.

    as for Anglian setting up a general forum site themselves i wonder if the company would have the bottle to do it. it is a brilliant idea but i could see it being hijacked by the complainers or Anglian being seen to censor it to their advantage. it is worth serious thought an i will try and put the idea to the head shed.

    might put you out of business though!!

  222. Guy

    I’m not in this for the business! Hence the complete lack of any advertising on this site. The amount of traffic i get to this post could get decent ad revenue but i don’t bother. Im amazed this post continues to get so much attention! I do think that the majority of Anglian reps posting here have reasonable arguments for their sales methods and come across well. Keep up the good work.

  223. Esther, South London

    I have just had sliding windows installed in part of my property. My house is victorian therefore much work is needed to fill the box sash. I suspect that this has not been done as gaps have been left at the top of 3 of the windows. To anyone thinking of purchasing from Anglian becareful DONOT sign any forms stating that you are happy with the work at the finish of the work. Tell the fitter you intend to inspect the work. Also please remember the window might be of a good quality but you do not know who the company is going to send to do your installation. They seem to rush these jobs I certainly do not intend to purchase anything else from ANGLIAN Widows as I lack confidence in their fitters. BEWARE you may be charged for a 1st rate job but there is no guarantee you will receive this.

  224. simon

    ++ private message ++

  225. Esther, South London

    Simon, whatever you do DO NOT sign any forms stating that you are happy with the work at the end of the job. If you have taken credit do not sign the authority to the credit company it means they will not get their money. I was a repeat customer as well but I can assure you I have no intention of getting involved with them again. As I said they charge you for a 1st rate job but you open yourself to hassle. The windows may be good but the fitters rush the work and seem not to be competant.

    Don’t you or your partner sign any papers until you get the 1st class installation you ordered and are expected to pay for. GOOD LUCK

  226. SW London Anglian Rep

    I have to strongly agree that customers should not reward bad fitters by signing the satisfaction note unless the job IS actually satisfactory – I make a big point of this when I take an order and yet I STILL find customers sign without inspecting first.

    It’s this stupid British thing of going to a restaurant and finding that everything is fine except that the new chef puts too much salt in the main dish, but, instead of telling the waiter or restaurant owner so they can fix it, they just pay the bill, leave the usual tip as if quite happy and mumble to themselves “we just won’t go back there again”.

    There is a case to argue for having the satisfaction note presented by some kind of quality control inspector rather than by the fitters themselves who, as typical British workmen, can probably be a bit intimidating to little old middle-class Mrs Miggins.

    As a rep I would much prefer this as it would lead to me dealing with less of the numerous but mostly quite minor (and to my mind unnecessary) post-installation issues and it would avoid the regular problem of fitters collecting a cheque for what is in fact a reduced price offer for finance only, leading to arguments with the customer weeks later when we demand the difference further down the line.

    I really can’t understand why a fitting team would prefer to drive out to a house to replace a door that doesn’t fit properly, knowing that, say, the wrong handles have been sent down from Norwich and that a further visit will be required. Why not just keep the door in the depot until the right handles are there? Fitters turning up with the wrong or missing parts is the most common but most easily fixable problem as I see it.

    Saying that, Alex McNutt has been putting a lot of pressure on installation managers to sort out stuff like this – so much so that many of the “old school” have jumped ship (to Everest, I hear!) and some new blood are being taken on to tackle these effeciency issues.

  227. Esther, South London

    SW London Rep, you seem to be implying that these fitters are not the EMPLOYEES of Anglian but sub-contractors, which is what I suspect.

  228. Esther, South London

    Simon, How did you get on with your complaint of shoddy workmanship. I hope you receive the 1st rate service you paid for. At the end of the day its no point buying a quality window if the company fails to supply reputable, competant, skillful fitters.

  229. SW London Anglian Rep

    Esther,

    I’m not implying anything of the sort, just that without proper feedback how does any company know who is or isn’t doing a good job.

    Although they do work exclusively for us, in fact Anglian fitters work on a self-employed basis for tax reasons partly and also for issues of availability beyond specific working hours to complete a job, amongst others.

    I don’t see any inherent problem with this system, and/or using sub-contractors as such, where required, as long as it’s the SAME sub-contractors each time based on the quality of recent jobs done and/or there is some accountability for the standard of work. That would seem to be the main issue irrespective of the method of payment used.

  230. Simon

    Hi all i,m back. Sorry i havnt posted for a while ive been out of the country again, my job takes me all over the place.
    Their appears to be another “simon” posting but i,m sure the regulars on here know which one i am.
    Anyway i have an update, since my last post on the 3rd November we carried on trying to get in touch with Anglian with no real joy until last week 20th November.Anglian contacted me to say the 2 new units i required were ready and we could arrange a date for fitting. We arranged for the fitting and other remedial works to be done today 29th November, unfortunately i am in Brazil again so have to leave the final inspection up to my wife. The girls i spoke too was very nice on the phone and appologetic, i questioned her as to why Anglian had not asked me for any more of the payment? she told me i had been mucked about so much that they would not dare request the money untill the job was completed to my satisfaction. For this i have to give Anglian credit.
    So the work is getting done today hopefully to the satisfaction of my wife who will then pay the remaining moneys.
    I will post again later today or tomorrow.

  231. Esther, South London

    Simon, I wish you all the best tell your wife to inspect those windows from the top to bottom on a ladder. I hope they do not rush the job.

    I am in a bit of a jam I need to place another order for some windows but I its a task I simply cannot face. I might just patch and repair if possible.

  232. simon

    Hi all.

    Well he arrived, 2 hrs late but whos counting?

    He only arrived with one of the replacement windows!! said he knew nothing about the other one. When i spoke with Anglian last i double checked they had both the replacement units, the nice lady on the phone confirmed this.
    As for the workmanship i cant comment 100% as i aint seen it yet. My wife seems happy with it but….she isnt realy that way inclined.
    Anyway she didnt pay them AGAIN, and was told to wait a week and if she didnt hear anything to get on the phone.
    I was hoping this would be the end of the saga but obviously not.
    I am back in the UK before xmas and will propably attempt to pay them some more but not all of the remaining moneys.
    I guess my next post will be when ive arrived home and checked the work for myself.
    Cheers
    Simon

  233. Simon_

    I’m the other simon….

    My experience with Anglian has unfortunately been mixed. Initially sales person who called gave me the usual roller coaster ride so I dismissed their offerings.

    Having found a resonable salesguy on here I proceeded with the other of rooftrim and door having been given a fair price.

    The first team arrived and after first half of day 1 I began to suspect all was not rosey. At the end of day 1 the job appeared to be very shoddy and I took this up with the fitters the next day.

    Unfortunately they failed to take appropriate remedial action so I summonsed the assitance of the local installations manager.

    He prompty visited and agree’d the work although nearing completion needed complete removal and a new team brought in to complete the works to the standards you usually associate with the Anglian Brand.

    Second team arrived following week and did a sterling job but unfortunately I’m left with the shadow of scaffolding which was used either side of my house to facilitate bargeboard access (one side of which significantly incroaches on my neighbours property).

    My neighbour has been very understanding as the scaffolding adds a significant hazard to her rear garden which is of concern as she has two small children.

    Anglian advised the scaffolding would be removed tuesday PM or Wednesday of this week and I re-interated the importance of this occuring in terms of the situation with my neighbour who thus far has been accomodating but its nearly 2weeks to might be pushing her generosity.

    I have made numberous calls to my local Anglian branch over the past 3days and not one has been returned. I have chased again and been promised the scaffolders will be with me tomorrow.

    Not sure what I’m going to say to my neighbour tonight as I promised they would be removed when works were complete and that was 3days ago.

    In a last desperate bid to assist I have made contact with senior management within Anglian in the hope that I can get this resolved today.

    From my perspective I’m really staggered that I’m having these experiences as being a company owner myself I would be falling over my customer to make ammends should this sort of issue ever arise.

    It strikes me that I have had to do all the chasing and management of project which is fundamentally wrong.

    I’m considering hiring contracters later today to remove the scaffolding privately as it may be the only workable solution.

  234. Simon_

    I had a call from Anglian Senior management who have had a word on my behalf with my local office. Suprisingly the elusive person I had been trying to contact called me within 10mins and assured me the scaffolders would be with me tomorrow.

    Not ideal and I will have to approach my neighbour tonight with my tail between my legs.

    Lets hope the scaffolders turn up! :-/

  235. Phil Symmonds

    I am a retired Anglian rep with 15 years experience and if anyone needs help or advice with regard to what you should be paying for either windows or a conservatory please e mail me plsymmonds@aol.com.

    Phil Symmonds.

  236. simon_

    By crickey! To coin a phrase…..

    Scaffolders have turned up at O’darkhundred!

    Still its a good thang as means we don’t have to twiddle our thumbs waiting around for the rest of the day.

  237. Phil Symmonds

    I submitted a comment stating i was an anglian ex rep and you have taken it down. Would you mind if i asked why. You can either leave comment for all to see or send me an e mail

    Regards Phil

  238. Guy

    Hello Phil, i didnt take your comment down, each comment that goes on this site goes through a moderation process to avoid spam. Since this was the first time you posted on here there was a delay.

  239. Midlands Anglian Connie Rep

    Hello again

    as promised i am keeping you updated re my installations.

    the windows and doors were started friday and finished today. on the plus side the fitters (paul and allan) were excellent. a neat tidy and professional job with which i am hard pushed to find fault. now out of coffee though!!
    on the minus side i was told the job would start 0900 and take one day. fitters came from bristol(1and1/2 hours drive) so were late with no courtesy call. was then informed that job would take 2 days as fitting teams had been swapped at short notice.

    rooftrim started today and team is from birmingham. arrived 1 1/2 hours late. must be the anglian standard!!
    however their standard of work is a joy to see. even though they were only here a few hours what they have done is first rate. i went up the scaffold to see for myself while they were here.
    the job is to take 3 days and i have no worries whatever.turns out one has been doing rooftrim for 19 years.

    moral of the story so far is an excellent job but dont expect them to be on time.

    i am more than happy for anyone around evesham to come and see for themselves.

    neither of the window fitters knew my company conection until completion. the rooftrim guys are still unaware.

    anyone interested contact me at
    victormark3@btinternet.com.

  240. Esther, South London

    Midlands Anglian, you were fortunate and I am pleased that your installation was a professional stress free one – its a shame this is not the standard offered to ALL Anglian customers; as we are all certainly charged for it. I can tell you without reservation I will not be placing any further orders with Anglian. I will need to place another order for another property and possibly a conservatory but I will not be considering the Anglian for any of this work.

  241. Bean

    Hi there guys, i used to be a representitive for weatherseal/supremoglaze so i’m going to let you in on a few tips and secrets about them, and this is true of most double glazing firms. if you allow a rep into your home, he will be there for atleast 2 hours, there will be phonecalls made to his marketing department, his manager and so forth and he will use your landline. he will be pushing for a sale on the day so you will hear some funny prices, now if you haggle him down to his lowest price the quality of installation you will recieve will be shockingly poor, the less you pay the less experienced fitters will be sent to complete your installation, so they pay less commissions, thus retaining as much profit as possible. if you do allow them into your home i would advise that you take control of the situation simply by saying, i dont want to hear all your sales patter i just want a price, whenever he interrupts you interrupt him. make sure you get your price whatever price he gives you originally devide it by two because that is the rrp of the product, the silly price he gives you originally is double the reccomended retail price hense the 50% discounts it would be illegal for him to sell you windows at this original price. The phone calls he makes are all to his branch/sales manager never anybody else there is no feature home department and the grading is a joke. the company is far less sophisticated than it is made to seem. and even if he is in your house at midnight and he needs to make a grading he will say that feature home dept are 24 hours this isnt true and he will probably be phoning the talking clock. However above all this, weatherseal/supremoglaze do easily have the best product on the market and i do have it installed in my home and many members of my family have it, but you get what you pay for, if you pay what the product is worth…the feature home price. (RRP) you will be very happy indeed with the level of service you recieve. they have a rediculously fast turn over at the factory so if you order today i have no doubt that they will be phoning you asking if the could fit on wednesday (5daysish) their finance package is also a very good, flexible package and gives you a great deal of legal, and financial protection also you only start paying payments when the work is completed to your satisfaction. all you risk is a £100 deposit. In essence i would reccomend weatherseal/supremoglaze but you must be in control when the representitive visits you.

    Thanks for your time.
    I hope this is useful to you all.

  242. Esther, South London

    Bean,
    With the greatest respect, please read page 1 the first posting regarding Weatherseal. I appreciate and took note of your comments and it appears that you consider the needs of your customers but people of your calibre seem few in the double-glazing industry and that I suspect is part of the problem.

  243. midlands anglian connie rep

    bean
    again with the greatest respect you may be talking about your own fitters but you are certainly not talking about ours.

    anglian fitters are paid by the manufacturing price of the product not the selling price. to suggest that the company only sends the worst fitters to the cheapest jobs shows just how little you know of the industry as a whole.

    you also dont want the sales patter. if so the only comparison the customer will have is the price. as quality varies vastly from company to company what you are suggesting is all companies manufacture at the same low quality and compete solely on cost. get real and join the real world. people pay according to what they believe is best value for money, not just the cheapest.

    the reason i use this site is to try and help potential buyers not mislead them and scare the life out of them.

  244. Donna

    Avoid Anglian Windows or regret it forever. Thanks god they have not managed to fit the window. They were supposed to fit ONE simple window in September.
    OK the salesman was polite enough, however did use pressure line ” this offer is only good for the August bank holiday” you must sign today. I panicked I signed. Even when I asked him directly about cancelling or changing my mind. When I asked about having deposits returned or not being taken to court etc, he cooly stated that Anglian are not in the business of hasseling customers, keeping their depostits and do not want bad publicity. That is a LIE. When I got buyers regret and tired to stop it going further I phoned the number on the top of the paperwork “all enquiries”. A manager smugly told me that I had signed a contract and I was bound to pay in full no matter what and there was no point me complaining to anyone because they would just refer me back to his department (Grazely office, Reading). He then urged me to call the sales office. I called them and got a rude sales manager, his tone was angry, he called me pathetic and he hung up on me. I was so upset at this typical employee of Anglian values a customer? I called head office, customer service and even their legal department, they messed me around, my phone bill to them was big. Eventually a man at head office assured me that the windows were not made.
    I wrote to Legal department as advised and offered to pay some costs urged them NOT to make the windows. Legal department ackowlwedged my letter 11 Sept. Later I discovered that they had not got my 10% deposit because my card was not active. FOUR months passed by and then WHAM, they want to fit the window sometime soon. They failed to contact me during the dispute and now they want access to my property. NO WAY, I,m seeking legal advice now, after the horse has bolted. I wish I had read the reviews about them before I signed up. At least they haven’t got a penny of my money YET and I have not got their rotten window. Some really nice chap from PREMIER GLASS fitted TWO beautiful windows in ONE HOUR flat and apparently he has done quite a few in my block, I just wished I’d known before. I WIll have to go into battles with Anglian. The story will continuee….

  245. SW London Anglian Rep

    What a total bunch of crap!

    Our contracts have clearly laid out terms & conditions including an UNCONDITIONAL seven-day cooling off period and a printed tear-off cancellation slip to post back, which is more than sufficient to allow for any reasonable degree of “buyer’s remorse”.

    Furthermore, we would need a signed technical survey, i.e. a second visit by agreed arrangement, before we would be in any position to proceed to manufacture. We would also not make the windows if we had not been paid a deposit.

    I note that you boast that it only took “Premier Glass” one hour to fit your two windows -interesting that you think the quality of the job increases inversely with the time taken to complete.

  246. Siobhan- Lincs

    Advice wanted:

    Any recommendations? I am looking for a quote for 2/17 windows depending on cost and 3 doors.

    We have had a rep from Zenith last week but I was dissapointed when a presentation took 2 hours as I had just asked for a quote. I was then quoted for 2 windows and 3 doors original price of 12,500 then with ‘showhome’ discount 9,500 (not sure when they took off the VAT as promised at the beginning of the presentation). After explaining this was all fine but we are looking to do this sometime over the next 12 months the ‘phone call’ was made and the price was droped to 4,500 based on a staff discount…….I don’t work there but of course only if we signed up there and then.

    Anyway they have left a quote fixed for 2 yrs of 9,500. I believe that I should be able to get all of my 17 windows and 3 doors for 9,500 am I being realistic?

    Also does anyone know of a company that can give me a quote without the 2 hr presentation, or the cr@p ‘call to my manager’.

  247. Simon2

    Hi Siobhan

    I’ve heard good things about Brackenwood windows down in Berkshire.

    Anglian are ok but you can get the sales pitter patter and the quality of fitter varies – however if your fortunate your experience can be good.

    Hope this helps.

    S

  248. Zenith Guy

    I haven’t been here for a bit.
    Loving all the anglian bashing, but i’m going to have to side with SW London Anglian Rep. There is no way a company of Anglians size, or Zenith or Everest (I suppose) would make windows without a visit from a surveyor.
    Plus everyone has the usual 7 day cancellation period. We at Zenith also have a slip on our contract which can be returned to us.

    As for Siobhan’s experience… if you’re looking to spend the best part of £10k on your house, surely you want to know what you’re getting for your money if you have it done? Showing you the sample and telling you about guarantees etc takes an hour, and an hour to measure, design and price is not a long time. I could give you a quote from the start, I’d say £3k and you’d ask am I putting crap there? Or I could say £20k, and you’d ask if they were gold windows. Take the time to see the windows, regardless of whoever you use. Do you really want some old cowboy to run round and give you a quote in a minute? I guess not. I could possibly understand if you just wanted a single window changed for a few hundred quid.
    Oh and I can’t see you getting 3 doors and 17 windows changed from any major company.
    Maybe George the Glazer down the High Road.

  249. Tim

    Interesting site.

    I spent 15 years running my own window cleaning company. During that time, my employees and I maintained and cleaned literally hundreds of thousands of windows. I had the chance over that time to witness countless replacements and installations. I have seen some truly awful cases, including several where the structural integrity of the house itself was compromised, and quite literally falling down. I have also seen wonderful installs that have been a pleasure to maintain each month. Trained as a carpenter/joiner, I also took great interest in the fit and finish of each new job, ( I only cleaned windows for the easy money!!), and over the course of the 15 years it was most interesting to see how the different ‘brands’ performed.

    A lot of problems were obviously caused by the fitters, who were either inexperienced, lazy, or just downright incompetent.
    Of the nationwide companies, Safestyle and Coldseal seemed most likely to employ “dodgy” fitters, and I knew of several customers who never ever settled their bill due to dissatisfaction. I was pleased to be able to assist them in pointing out problems that usually they would never see, such as might require a ladder to inspect etc.
    One particularly memorable sight was a builder working by floodlight at 11.30pm to put right a collapsed lintel on an Anglian patio door install. One customer had to have several large tinted panels replaced in the Staybrite conservatory, then the window fitter spray the glass with red hot sparks from his angle grinder. Again this was a fault which I was able to highlight to the elderly customer. (Staybrite replaced without a problem incidentally).

    Now then, last August it was time to replace my own windows, and also order a conservatory. My choice of company was already made, and was based on my experience with that companies windows over more than a decade. I have seen how they perform, how they weather, how they clean up, and a good cross section of installations. All of this observed without prejudice or any reason other than to discover ‘the best’ windows for myself, when I finally had to switch over to upvc.
    The company that convinced me over the years that they were the one to choose? Anglian. The product itself is of excellent quality, and the vast majority of Anglian installations I observed, from a few windows up to a massive 25K just windows job, were very professionally completed.
    Our windows were fitted in August, and as expected are performing beautifully, and the fitters were very patient with me as I went round inspecting each window before settling the bill. The builders start in a couple of weeks on the conservatory, and they can rest assured that they will be watched like a hawk too. Incidentally, my new line of work brought me into contact with the guy who oversees the groundworks installations for Anglian in the midlands. He had no idea I was expecting a new installation myself, but I was impressed by the lengths he had gone to to make sure his current customer was satisfied (I supplied some stone chippings to him to match up to the customers existing chippings).

    While I would sing the praises of Anglians product, (Staybrite a close second btw), there are things I wish they would change. All the bull that goes along with the sales. We had several issues with confusion (on their part) over pricing, as we had windows and connie ordered together, and there were some strained telephone calls at one point. I appreciate that everyone needs to earn their crust, but the decepetive techniques using in selling and pushing up prices leaves a bad taste, and bad feeling. No one likes confrontation, and more professional, conscientious reps and managers should be able to get a better system going.

    Incidentally, I have window cleaning friends with their own business for 20 years, they too, quite independantly from ourselves, chose Anglian for their own windows.

    If any Anglian reps are still reading this, please could you explain a little more about the “Coseyfloor”. Our house is tiled throught the ground floor, and I intend to carry that through to the connie, but I understand that this is impossible without boarding the floor again. Is an alternative offered?

    Just my 2c in an interesting discussion!

  250. Dan

    I have just had the pleasure of an Anglian Windows rep visit me in my home. I apologised for the mess as we bought it a few months ago and are in the middle of a full renovation and a thickening layer of brick dust is evident everywhere along with boxes, materials, etc. He declined to shake my hand in case ‘he got it dirty’ which was bizarre given that I had come from my office to meet him at the house and was wearing a suit, collar and tie!

    He sighed as he put down his briefcase and said he was not scheduled to come to me and so I had ‘robbed’ him of an early finish. He went on to say that he would not bother taking his folder with product pictures in out of his case as people rarely wanted to see it.

    With reluctant resignation and total disinclination, he asked me what I wanted. I said I wanted a quote for upvc sash windows throughout the house and a new front door and surround. His eyes widened and he said (and I am quoting) “you won’t be able to afford sash windows, why don’t I price up something cheaper which we can make look like sash?”

    Obviously, I immediately dismissed any further involvement from this individual or Anglian Windows in the renovation plans but I decided to continue with the quote just to drag it out into his afternoon. He dragged himself up the stairs complaining on every tread about the steepness and waved his tape measure in the general vicinity of the various windows he needed to measure. His measurements were, at best, rough and he continued his pitch to sell me bottom of the range windows which I would ‘be able to afford’.

    Having finished the scientific measurements, he leaned against a worktop in the kitchen and began scribbling on a pad. “I doubt I have brought the sash prices with me as no one ever asks and I have never sold any” but thankfully he found the relevant page on his ready reckoner.

    After 15 minutes of absolute silence whilst he scribbled on the pad, tapped on the calculator and kept my hand firmly wrapped around the page to deter my prying eyes, he looked up and with absolute dejection told me the price.

    I said I had already received an alternative quote from another supplier which was over 30% cheaper and his reply??

    “I told you when I came in that you could not afford us and so now you have just wasted my time”.

    I am using my spare time to surf the web and find that particular sales technique!!

  251. Rob

    We have recently had somebody round from Zenith and I have to say we were very relieved that he didn’t live up to the typical image of a national conservatory salesman (pressuring, staying beyond welcome, insisting on sale the day he visited). He was very professional. Yes he took his time with us, but as a result he got a great understanding of what we actually wanted and also uncovered a number of issues which other conservatory companies had missed. Most impressive of all he picked up when it was getting close to the kids bed time and instead of dragging it out offered to come back another day. This was a good thing as we would have left with a very bad impression of Zenith if he’d insisted on staying, or even waited until being asked to leave, but he didn’t.
    We decided not to go with Zenith in the end because of some of the anecdotes we’ve read online about problems with fitters rushing the job and then further difficulties with getting problems fixed under the guarantee. However he was not at all rude about this, but remained entirely professional and understanding.

    This is the level of professionalism I’m used to dealing with at work, it was very refreshing to have such a person to deal with in our own home.

    If all Zenith’s reps were like this guy they’d have a fantastic reputation on the sales front and people would be queuing up to have them round to their houses.

  252. Arthur Greenway

    i had anglian windows in to fit new doors in 2006 there fitters did not arrive on the stated day and we were not informed untill 10.00 am that day that they were not coming they arrived the next day and took 6 hrs to do a 2 day job the result was very poor fitting to what is a nice product.
    we have eventualy had all the repairs done to our satisfaction but at a cost of 4 extra days of work to which i have put in a claim for lost earnings can any one tell me were i stand in law as to such a claim.
    A good tip if you whant to get rid of a sales man quickly get some quotes and leave the cheepest on show so as the salesman can see it it cuts out a lot of useless time wasting if you dont whant there product say no show them the door.

  253. midlands anglian connie rep

    Hi Tim

    thanks for your informative and interesting post. it was well written and obviously based on many years experience.
    cosey floor is a standard chipboard interlocking floor which has a dense polyurethane backing glued to it, making a thickness of approx 48 mil.
    it is primarily designed to accomodate laminate, carpet, lino etc. we dont recommend ceramic tile as a cover because of the slight flex in the wooden floor, however a good flexible tile cement will do the job.
    an alternative is a screed concrete floor on top of jabalite insulation. this is almost as good.
    hope this is of some use to you and sorry i didnt get back sooner as i have been on my winter hols. now got the blues!!

  254. SW London Anglian Rep

    “This was a good thing as we would have left with a very bad impression of Zenith if he’d insisted on staying, or even waited until being asked to leave, but he didn’t.
    We decided not to go with Zenith in the end because of some of the anecdotes we’ve read online about problems with fitters rushing the job and then further difficulties with getting problems fixed under the guarantee. However he was not at all rude about this, but remained entirely professional and understanding.

    This is the level of professionalism I’m used to dealing with at work, it was very refreshing to have such a person to deal with in our own home.

    If all Zenith’s reps were like this guy they’d have a fantastic reputation on the sales front and people would be queuing up to have them round to their houses.”

    Unfortunately, you have just penalised his “good behaviour” by not placing an order, based upon a few isolated anecdotes found on the internet – comparable examples of which in all likelihood it would not be possible to find if you were looking for anecdotes about small local resellers, simply because of the huge difference in the number of installations performed.

    A good salesman would have tried to close the deal there and then, uncovering and then reassuring you about your concerns regarding the standard of fitting and perhaps taking steps to ensure you got better than average fitters.

    You get a good reputation in sales by making sales. Customers who agree to go ahead must be happy with the combination of salesman and company or they would all cancel the next day. Once happy, people tend to reinforce their decisions by recommending that same company/salesman.

    People who say “well the salesman was nice but we went with a cheaper local company” do nothing to help the business of the company they turned down.

    The job of a salesman is to get the deal. A good salesman will do it smoothly and, in the absence of an immediate deal, will leave the door open to close the deal on a subsequent occasion without upsetting anybody.

    Your chap unfortunately seems to have left you to decide in his absence so that the next time you spoke, instead of airing your concerns, you had in fact already made your mind up.

    Worst of all, as far as he and Zenith are concerned, he gave you all the technical information you needed to help you choose another consevatory company! Why do you think individual companies in the industry should or would reward such poor salesmanship!

  255. Elaine

    Oh my goodness, how I wished I had
    a) followed my own usual instinct never to agree to see a rep from any company that rings up out of the blue
    b) done an internet search on “Supremoglaze”/”Weatherseal” between agreeing the appointment and opening the door to the sales rep. Hubby and I would not have just wasted 4 hours of our valuable Sunday evening!!!!

    All of the sales tactics mentioned above in regard to Anglian and Weatherseal were employed by the young lady from Supermoglaze. I was told on the phone that it would take “about one hour”… in fact it was four hours and 9.30pm by the time she left for one hour to allow us to eat our much delayed (and almost ruined!) roast dinner. The appointment was initially supposed to be 2.30pm, then they said “Oh I’m sorry it seems the 2.30 slot has just been taken” and offered 5.30pm. Thinking that would leave plenty of time to prepare dinner, I stupidly said “yes”. Whilst the sales girl sat in her car for an hour (giving us time to talk)we bolted our meal down then immediately logged onto the internet to look up “Supremoglaze” and came across this site. Whereupon we took the sample windows and her literature bag (which she had cleverly left in our lounge even though I suggested she take them when she left so that we could eat.. but of course she wanted a chance to get back in the house but we didn’t want that, as I foresaw difficulties in getting her to leave….

    We wanted a quote for 6 windows, two back doors and a front door with 2 side panels. The first quote (which took a mind numbing 3 hours of nonsense about schools, phone boxes, churches and so forth which resulted in our house getting a “B+” grading”, which she suggested we should celebrate over, was a staggering £19k!! At this point I went cold all over and wished she had been a man, because I am certain my husband would have shown him the door at that point. There then followed the nonsense about the Final Retail Price which was valid for 1 year, and a “sign tonight only” price of approx £10,500.

    The window samples looked good, I won’t deny, but as I said to my husband, if the product is as good as they say it is, why the pressure to sign now?!? They should not be afraid to leave us for a week. My husband said “Of course you know we will get other quotes, don’t you?”(this being just before we found out the offer was only valid tonight) Her response was something along the lines of “have I said something wrong? Is our product not good?” (She had a little difficulty with the language, English not being her natural toungue)… whereupon she said she would leave us for as long as we needed to eat our dinner (by this time it was 9.45) – we agreed that she would come back at a quarter to eleven…. why, i don’t know, we just wanted to get her out of the house to discuss the whole thing. I was so angry that we had sat there and let her rabbit on for three hours of our valuable sunday evening…. i had things I wanted(needed) to do tonight, too… when it happens to you it’s rather like watching a car crash in slow motion… you know it’s happening and you know it’s wrong but you feel a strange kind of inability to get out of the way, quick.. you’re like a rabbit frozen in headlights. And of course the salesman barely gives you time to think to realise that it’s all rubbish… her bright smile started to falter when we didn’t, as she suggested we might “jump up and down and get out the champagne to celebrate” at the first price of £19k… i think she knew then she’d lost the sale, as by that time we had had enough and just wanted our evening back! After checking them up online and seeing what others on here had to say, we packed up her samples and literature bag, took them out to her as she sat in her car, and told her that we had researched them online, didn’t like what we’d read, and furthermore were very annoyed that what was supposed to be a one hour presentation ended up being 4 hours with the prosepect of antoher hour to come if we let her back inside! She was either genuinely surprised (wanted to know what we’d read – I said “go onto google, type in Supremeoglaze and scroll down, you’ll find out what we did” … she then said “I don’t honestly have internet at home” – a smart sales rep with a nice Yaris… come off it!) or a very good actress as she acted as if she had never heard of any complaints, etc etc.

    We did not give any banking details to her, only signed a couple of forms saying we understood the information she had shown us”.. the paperwork with the prices on, the order, she left with us … so hopefully we will not find out that we have signed up to buy anything anyway…. unfortunately she did get our phone number on a form, so no doubt we will be inundated with sales pitches from now until doomsday… looks like we will be changing our phone number very soon! I am just so cross that I fell for it… usually with phone calls of that nature (where they have people in the area who can call round today to do a no obligation quote)I just say no thank you and put the phone down…. in future I think I may not even speak, and will put the phone right down on them. GGGrrrr! All I can say is that thank goodness we realised in time and only lost 4 hours of a precious weekend, instead of £10k for something worth only a fraction of that….

  256. Elaine

    Mike Says:
    September 15th, 2006 at 2:30 pm

    Agreed Richard, the FSA regulations mean that an independent finance company and credit cards are safest. In fact over 90% of my sales are financed as my company is FSA registered.

    ————-
    Sorry to seem dim (it’s late and I’m a little tired after a 4 hr Supremoglaze sales pitch) but when you say one of the safest things to use is an indenpendant finance company, what exactly constitutes an IFC? Supremoglaze had GE Money as their finance company, is that an IFC? (that’s who we would have been paying had we signed up to their lifestyle account.. we didn’t sign up because they were the first ppl we got a quote from, we were told on the phone we’d be under no obligation so were not expecting to be pressurised to sign tonight.. naieve? Perhaps. We haven’t all done it before and although we thought we were sensibly wary, we had no clear idea if we were being ripped off or not – until we found this site that is! What we read on here re-inforced our gut feeling -formed simply because of the high pressure tactics- that we would have been paying way over the odds, even though we liked the look of the product. So, to repeat my question (in case it got lost in all the waffle), what exactly is an independant finance company when it comes to buying windows?

  257. SW London Anglian Rep

    It’s pretty hard to find reps willing to work on a Sunday, especially late afternoon. The only reason a rep is going to waste four unpaid hours or more with a customer, especially on a Sunday, is if they get the impression from the customer that there is a reasonable chance of a sale.

    There are certain stages that the sales process has to go through, unless circumstances dictate otherwise. An experienced rep will pick up on the body language and signals that suggest they are on to a loser, but an inexperienced rep will simply plough on through as long as the customer is giving the correct verbal responses – the rep is not a psychic afterall.

    I really don’t see why you agreed to an inconvenient time or why you couldn’t have said to the rep “we can only give you one hour maximum,like we were told” and then simply said at the end of the hour “thankyou very much, but the agreed time is up” – not exactly hard to do, is it? Much less confrontational than searching on the net and saying to the returning rep, who by now is expecting a sale, “look what we did, aren’t we clever”.

    I feel a bit sorry for the naive rep who endured four hours of lip-service and a further hour waiting in their car simply because the customer couldn’t bring themselves to express what they were really thinking.

    As for “changing your phone number”, I think by now, courtesy of Jeremy Clarkson, most people are fully aware that this is not necessary.

  258. Elaine

    Yes, you are right – we should have made our discomfort plain after an hour and a half, at least, and I did apologise to the young lady for that. The thing is, the longer the presentation went on, the more we kept thinking “it must be nearly over now” and we did, many times,try to cut to the chase, but the girl would just not deviate from her structured sales pitch, and because she did seem very nice and kept getting sidetracked, I personally felt that she was rather new to it all and that normally it wouldn’t take that long. I suppose I felt sorry for her, and despite our best efforts to get a price from her several times much earlier in the evening, she would not deviate from her presentation format and gave us the impression that we would be absolutely delighted with the price… and because the product did, from the sample and the brochure, look good, we felt that it would be worth hanging on for. It wasn’t until it got to 3 1/2 hours and the price of £19k for 6 windows (none of them huge) and three doors was mentioned, and then the price started coming down, that we realised what was going on. As so many other people on here have said, all a customer wants is to see a sample (ok, an hour on telling us why its the best would be fine too) and to be given a price. All this rigmarole to artificially inflate a price then bring it down, is just SO unnessesary and really does put you off buying, no matter how good the product may be. No one likes to feel they’ve been pushed to think a price is good when really it may not be. And yes, we should have looked the company up on the web before the appointment, to save us all the time and bother… because as soon as I read the comments on here, I knew that we would not ever want their windows! For the record, we neither of us thought that we were “clever” to find out on the internet after wasting four hours of everyone’s time… in fact i was damned furious with myself for even listening to the phone call that generated the appointment. I always (apart from this one time!) say “no” to telephone sales calls. If we want something, we will usually go out and look for ourselves, and speak to friends… it so happened that we had only been talking about doing that the very same morning, but had not got as far as doing so… so I suppose I just happened to be already “primed” by our conversation when the phone call came. And the bit about changing phone numbers was in fact a joke (albiet a poor one)…

    so if Susannah from Supremeoglaze Basingstoke happens to follow my advice and type her company name into Google and is reading this, please accept our sincere apologies for not knowing the ways of double glazing hard sell, because if we had it would have saved us all a wasted evening! I’m sure there are lots of decent window firms out there, but I will never be persuaded that yours is one of them. And having heard a tale of constant hassle from a work colleague who once asked Anglian to quote him for some replacement windows… well we won’t be calling you guys, either. And I learned today from my mother, that my father had a similar experience in the 1980’s (not sure which company it was though). He never did get the windows replaced because he felt he just didn’t know who to trust, and the house was much the worse for it. We WILL get our windows replaced, but we will take our time, get at least 3 quotes (as we said to Susannah, you don’t generally buy the first car or house you look at, do you – why should replacement windows be any different?!) and then we will make an informed and unpressurised choice, thank you all very much, hard sell reps.

  259. Elaine

    KNOW ANY GOOD REPLACEMENT WINDOW COMPANIES IN THE CAMBERLEY, SURREY, AREA?

    If you’ve had a GOOD experience in the area, we’d very much appreciate some recommendations! Word of mouth counts for a lot….Please post here, thanks a lot. :-)

  260. SW London Anglian Rep

    I have to say I’m frequently amazed at how little basic preliminary research people do BEFORE they allow a salesperson into their home.
    Everyone knows what a salesperson is there to do (the clue is in the name) yet customers expect free advice and pricing and are surprised when the salesperson tries to close the deal.

    The most frequent objection I get is “we’ve no idea of price” as a reason for not taking advantage of any current offers. Often, though, it’s a rubbish excuse because when you give a price and ask what the customer thinks of it the standard response is to say “it’s much more than we thought” and with a bit of probing it usually turns out that they only expected half the amount and, in many instances, have had other quotes already, sometimes from our very selves.

    On surprisingly many occasions, though, the customer really has no idea. They haven’t spoken to friends, neighbours, family, etc never mind looking on the internet.

    Even just looking in the local paper you can see adverts for windows with prices next to them, cheapness being their salient selling point, then at least you know what the absolute cheapest, nastiest rubbish is going to cost. People don’t seem to be able to think of this on their own, for some reason.

    The other puzzling thing that people do is have us back months later for an “updated” quote but still not be ready to go ahead because in the intervening months they still haven’t had the other quotes that prevented them from going ahead last time.

    As I’ve said repeatedly on here, if people just want a price so they can shop around and take their time, they are very welcome to bring sketches and rough measurements into our showrooms.

    As for local companies in Camberley, after reading through this dicussion you (Elaine) must surely be aware that they will not be the source manufacturer and will merely be re-selling another maker’s unbranded product. Also, the “10-year guarantee” will only be as good as the company’s ability to stay in business through adverse periods of the economic cycle. Take that into account when you look at the relatively small price difference.

  261. Elaine

    In my own defense, all I can say is that normally we would have done some sort of research – but because I went against my own cardinal rule of never taking up a “cold call” offer on the phone, we were not really prepared for the rep at all. We got the phone call at around late morning/lunchtime, the initial appointment was to have been at 2.30pm for an hour, then they said they couldnt do 2.30 after all and how about 5.30pm – to which I stupidly agreed. We had only been talking about replacing the windows recently, but had not actually done any research as to cost etc. So we literally had no idea what to expect in the way of price.

    I fully appreciate all you say about the 10 year guarantee and local suppliers… we recently paid to have a flat roof repaired, and that came with a “10 year guarantee”, so yes, we do understand all that.

    We have learned a lesson from our experience, which is not to get taken in by a cold sales call, unless we are already at the point where we know what we want and what we expect to pay. And as I said before, the deal could very well have been made, but for the ridiculously long amount of time it took to even get a price out in the open, and then to learn that this price was only valid if we signed on the night… well, that killed any oppurtunity of a sale as far as we were concerned. We felt very pressurised. As I said to the agent, if the company were that confident that their prices and product were good, they should not be afraid to let the customer get other quotes. And as for having got other quotes first, well if you do get more than one, someone always has to be the first, don’t they… it’s a lottery for the salesman I guess, as to wether they are first, second or third quote.

    But it was mainly the sales tactics and pressure to sign on the night that really put us off – becuase we were not expecting a four hour sales pitch! We were told one hour on the phone, and if we are in any way at fault in this, it was in not insisting that we got a price after that time. We were wrong to let her go on for four hours, it was misguided politeness, and we were stupid to go along with it – but equally wrong is the company that makes a young lady feel that she has to way outstay her welcome and put the customer through hoops to get a sale. There is NO need for all that BS, none at all, and rest assured that we have certainly learned the hard way. If I had done what I know realise I should, and looked up on the internet after agreeing the appointment, we could have saved a lot of time by turning the girl away at the door. Not nice, I agree, but neither is what she did to us.

    I shant be making any more comments on this matter, I think I’ve said all I wanted to say, and we have learned our lesson. I just wish companies would stop forcing their salespeople to treat potential customers as idiots – we aren’t, we just aren’t as jaded or as cynical as perhaps we would need to be in order not to fall for that type of sales trick. It’s rubbish, please stop doing it.

  262. Sales Director

    This really is quite simple and if you follow this simple rule you will save yourself hours of crap and the stress associated with it.

    I am a Sales Director (not for a window company) and have also been a Sales Trainer. No reputable company operates a bullying policy so you can make what you will of that statement. I find none of the large window companies to be reputable.

    If you want to invite these companies to your home then give them some simple rules.

    1. They have 1 hour to make their presentation – be reasonable if you need 25 windows replaced etc. I am sure you can set out a sensible time that you are prepared to accept.
    2. Tell them that you WILL NOT be making a decision for 7 days.
    3. In conjunction with point 2, tell them you are getting comparative quotes hence the need to have a week to evaluate them.
    4. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING. There should never be a requirement for you to sign unless you are placing an order.

    If they don’t agree to these terms then do not invite them – PERIOD, no exceptions!

  263. Toby

    Well, wish me luck, after a good sales effort, and clearly a good product. A little tactical persuation on my part, and we have a price everyone seems happy with, just got to sign a few forms (after some indepth reading) and Aglian have won our business to refit our enitre (moderatly sized) house. I’ll let you know how it goes ….

  264. SW London Anglian Rep

    As a Sales Director you must surely employ salespeople that try to secure business in the most efficient manner possible. If all they did was turn up and say “here’s the price, just let us know in your own time if you’re interested ” I’d be surprised if you did much business. There’s just more to it than that.

    Why do you suggest that people have to adopt a rigid policy regardless? If I walk into a customer’s house and they say “you’ve got an hour and I’m getting two other quotes and I’m not signing anything tonight/for seven days” that just puts my back up, ’cause what the customer is trying to do is get my expert advice on features, designs etc(which they don’t usually get from the local reseller who doesn’t always know what he’s got from month to month anyway). They then usually intend to use that knowledge to help them shop around for something that they hope is cheaper but not completely rubbish.

    Well the customers don’t pay me for that advice so why should I put in all that effort unless I think there’s at least the chance of a sale. Never once in five years has a customer offered me money for my time and advice even though I’ve clearly given up an evening with my family to be at their house. Like I keep saying – we have shops (called showrooms) and most people know how to use a tape measure, so if they don’t want to be sold to don’t ask a salesman round – simple.

    In the situstion you suggest I would have to make a judgement as to whether to do a “speed-demo” and get out quick or whether to just go through the necessary procedures regardless, paying a bit more attention to the time constrainst and asking when appropriate “are you happy for me to continue?”. The “speed-demo” really wouldn’t sell them the better product so the customer would only be left to buy on price alone, which is rarely the best policy with most other purchases.

    I reasonably expect that a customer will be open minded enough to listen to what I have to say and, if they feel pretty happy with everything, to place an order. If they are not happy to place an order no amount of me “bullying” etc or overstaying my welcome is going to make that order stick even if they do “sign to get me out of the house” as I’ve heard some people say they’ve done.

    I think in Elaine’s case she must simply have had an inexperienced salesperson who couldn’t read the cues and took the nods and pleasantries at face value.

    As for “not being reputable” are you referring to the sales practices or the installation and guarantees and whole package in general. A big company that’s still in business in five or more years time is infinitely more reputable than a company that no longer exists.

  265. midlands anglian connie rep

    i fully agree with sw London and not just because we are from the same company.
    i give a full product dem which gives the customer a chance to go into every part of the conservatory.this normally produces more questions than at any other part of the evening,and will often take 45 minutes. most other companies do not dem the product and usually just measure up, price it, and tell them how wonderful they are.to set a short time limit is totally unrealistic as every house i visit has a different scenario.

    so mr sales director and anyone else who wants a short sharp visit,fine it is your choice.however if yuo want to take a gamble on what you are going to get for your money dont ring me. i am proud to sell quality as my own home will testify and i expect to be allowed to show you what you will be getting.

    as for not signing for 7 days, what are you gaining? if you like the price and product and can take advantage of the current promotions why not go for it? you still have 7 days to shop around inside your cooling off period which should be more than enough time.

    as sw London points out there are inexperienced sales people. everyone has to start at some point and it is the luck of the draw as to who you get.if you are not interested and have had enough and want the person to leave then just say so. even the greenest or most persistent will get the message.

    finally mr sales director i pride myself on being open and honest with customers,something that feedback has proved. i never fall out with them and always treat them with utmost courtesy.
    to say that all large companies are unreputable is more than a little ignorant and insulting. are all Scots mean, Irish thick, women bad drivers etc? no of course not and to generalise on the industry is not at all helpful. i would be obliged if you would expand on your comment and explain why we are all so bad

  266. DrB

    Have just signed up for Anglian Windows to replace 12 windows and a door in my 3 bed property.

    Ive read the negative posts here and other places but people I know who used them gave good reviews. And the price was very competitive, after some negotiation.

    The sales approach was slightly over the top but I can deal with that and expected it.

    Fyi, I did NOT sign up for the Gold Promo credit agreement, as it very clearly states that any early redemption will attract large charges (£900 for every £1k of credit!!).

    I also respect ConnieRep and SwRep for their willingness to post here.

    So.. I will let you know how things go.

    (As Im in the Wimbledon area, I may call on the services of SwRep if things go TU !)

    cheers
    DrB

  267. Tim

    OK, conservatory installation started last week.

    Just to re-cap, we are having a 5m x 3m lean-to type with some additional wall building.

    The base team have just finished today, although they will be back to screed the floor once the frame itself is up.

    So far I am very pleased with the workmanship involved. As I sometimes get involved on building projects, I know what to look for etc, and I cant find fault, although I am a little concerned that the cold snap we are experiencing may cause problems with the mortar overnight. As we have a dwarf wall on one side, then a 4m high wall on the other side, it would be pretty bad if the mortar failed :s

    The frame fitters are coming tomorrow.

    Let’s see what that brings!

    TJ

  268. SW London Anglian Rep

    A quick note on Anglian’s “Gold” Account/credit facility as there seems to be some misunderstanding:-

    There is NOT a £900 redemption penalty.
    The agreement is required to state that after a quarter, half and three-quarters of the life of the loan how much is still owed (per thousand borrowed) IF YOU HAVE ONLY BEEN PAYING THE MINIMUM MONTHLY AMOUNT. So, as with a credit card, if you ony paid that month’s interest plus a tiny amount of the capital then, yes, after 2.5 years you would still owe about £900 per thousand originally borrowed.
    But that would be a pretty stupid way to use a flexible loan facility and most people are encouraged and shown examples of how to pay extra monthly payments and lump sums. You can, in fact, settle with a maximum penalty of only two months interest on the balance still outstanding, which equates to about £35 per thousand. This is clearly stated on the back of the contract.

    Also, Anglian currently offer a 10% discount to credit customers (paid for from the commission Anglian get for passing the loan business to a third party) so there are not many sensible reasons why a customer should turn down the Gold facility if it is properly explained. Even if it is not paid off immediately but spread equally over twelve months the discount covers nearly the whole of that first year’s interest.

    Unfortunately, many people switch off at the mere hint of a mention of finance, so most reps don’t like to push the point. On large orders the saving using finance can be quite significant.

  269. DrB

    SW,
    your take on the Gold facility is interesting. It is pretty much what I was told by the sales rep.

    However, I read the small print on the contract back several times very carefully (I was initially after the 10% discount), and there was _definitely_ an Early Repayment Charges section. I do not recall seeing anything about a two months maximum penalty.

    So, now I do wonder whether the Ts&Cs I saw were the same as you: two different versions of the forms maybe?? Im sure the small print changes from time to time. Especially if GE (finance company) arent making money because customers are abusing it (like I intended to :).

    As I say, I was initially going for the Gold promo with the intention of paying it off asap in order to save money, but reverted to cash upon seeing the small print.

    Wish I had a copy of the small print now as I would publish it here in full…

  270. midlands anglian connie rep

    Hi DrB

    what SW says is absolutely correct. I recently had my yearly MOT to sell the finance and i had a long discussion with both the Black Horse and GE Capital reps present on just that subject. The smart buyer uses their finance for the 10% discount and pays it off over a year. this makes the repayment charges negligible on the small balance remaining. they are both aware of this happening and were quite philosophical about it all.

  271. SW London Anglian Rep

    Dr B

    First let’s clarify one thing. Any discount is offered by Anglian so would not appear in the Ts & Cs of a loan agreement, although on the bit the customer and rep fill in it is usual to state the cash price and any discount in boxes provided. This subsidy is not affected by the terms of the loan and any conditions attached to it (such as what happens if the customer pays it off within a certain time) would need to be stated on a separate Anglian document such as the one called “Your Personal Illustration”, and/or would be written on the Anglian purchase contract itself. If such a clause is not included then you are at liberty to pay the loan off whenever you like, subject to strict rules laid down by the Consumer Credit Act.

    The loan company pay Anglian for our customers’ business but cover the risk of early repayment by having a clawback arrangement with Anglian, hence they do not end up out of pocket if a customer settles early. It is Anglian who bear the brunt of a customer paying off the loan prematurely. At the moment they don’t have an early payment clause but even if they made it contractual that the discount could be reclaimed if the customer paid off too much too soon it would have to be clearly stated on the contract and explained by the rep, otherwise it would be legally unenforceable (it may well be anyway).

    The loan company themselves would rather take ten customers of which two pay off early rather than take five customers who didn’t, but lose the extra three because of some fear of huge penalties. In fact I’m quite surprised that they don’t go the full hog and offer a “no cost and no penalty” loan. Human nature being what it is many people would take it, expecting to pay it off early but would “find another use” for their money by the time the windows were fitted. It is often the reps own fear of having commission clawed back that stops him selling finance to a “cash” customer, though I myself tend to take the “throw enough mud and most will stick” approach as experience tells me most so-called “cash” customers borrow elsewhere anyway.

    The loan agreement (there is only one version!) has a clause (5(2) – on the back) which clearly states “The Customer may settle this agreement at any time by giving GE Money written notice of their intention to do so and by paying the balance outstanding, plus a fee equal to one month’s interest on the balance outstanding on the day immediately before settlement”. You would have to allow up to another month’s interest that would have already accrued since your last payment hence the “two month” maximum.

    The section I think you are refering to is the “Early Settlement” section on the front which is as I explained in my previous post and nothing to do with paying off within a few days or weeks of taking the loan.

    What surprises and concerns me is that you didn’t trust our representative enough to ask for clarification before deciding to pay the higher cash price alternative instead, yet you were happy on every other aspect of the deal, at least happy enough to go ahead in the first place.

    Why do customers trust us with the performing of what is in essence major cosmetic surgery on the structure of their home, with potential for catastrophic results in the wrong hands (and financial disaster if the company concerned went into liquidation), yet they worry about a few quid that might conceivably be incurred despite reassurances to the contrary, due to the possibility of some “hidden” clause or other in a document whose wording and conditions are actually strictly governed by industry watchdogs?

    It’s an irrational “what’s the catch” response but very widespread and I wish I could understand it. A bit like the hidden camera stunt with the tramp trying to give away $50 bills to passers by and failing miserably, except that our tramps are smartly dressed!

  272. midlands anglian connie rep

    Hi sw

    i think you will find the problem is with lack of confidence on the part of the rep.if you are confident about what you are trying to promote it is a lot easier than if you only have a sketchy knowledge. the forms can be confusing and certainly require accurate completion. i know a lot of reps who will go to any length to avoid the finance form and will deal only in cash customers. the finance training is as you know all done at local level so can be a bit hit or miss.

  273. DrB

    Hi SW and Connie

    I understand the relationship between Anglian and GE. That did not affect my decision not to go finance.

    SW said:
    “The loan agreement (there is only one version!) has a clause (5(2) – on the back) which clearly states “The Customer may settle this agreement at any time by giving GE Money written notice of their intention to do so and by paying the balance outstanding, plus a fee equal to one month’s interest on the balance outstanding on the day immediately before settlement”.”

    I dont have a copy of the Ts&Cs so cant comment on the above except to say that I simply do not remember reading it.

    Yep, the section was “Early Settlement” or something similar, which also stated applicable charges. I concede that there is the faintest possibility that I misread this section although I have to say that I read it through several times very carefully.

    SW says:
    “What surprises and concerns me is that you didn’t trust our representative enough to ask for clarification before …”

    Wrong! I did ask for clarification on what I was reading, and the rep’s response was _along the lines of_ ‘yeah I know but everyone does it and if youre careful GE wont ask for the charges’.
    To which I thought, ‘nah, not worth the risk’.

    So I did trust the rep, its just that I didnt trust my luck in not getting singled out for being hit by GE for early repayment charges!

    Connie – to be fair the rep had already filled the finance form out, so no lack of enthusiasm there.

    Guys, I would _dearly_ love to read the smallprint again to know whether I am completely mistaken in what I read. Am always willing to admit a mistake.

    Let me know if you want to mail me a copy of the form!

    cheers
    DrB

    ps. Anglian surveyor called last night to arrange survey. Came this morning at 7.30am as I could only do early. Seemed professional and competent. Told me the job was straightforward and that there was no reason to expect a price hike (see earlier posts). So far so good.

  274. midlands anglian connie rep

    Hi DrB

    pse send your email to victormark3@btinternret.com. i will try to send a copy of t@c to you

  275. Dan

    I am trapped in double glazed windowland , can anyone get me out? I had a quote from Anglian Windows a number of weeks ago; it was ridiculously high and the Rep was a complete idiot. I wrote to Anglian telling them both of these things and they replied with a blank customer service questionnaire. I completed saying I would mould glass with the my bare hands to fill the gaps in my walls before I let Anglian anywhere near my property. I have had 11 phone calls from various Anglian telesales people asking me what I thought of the quote since I submitted the letter and questionnaire. I faxed the local Area Sales Manager telling him that he was an absolute cretin and still he included me in a circular for a great ‘end of January’ sale. Yesterday another telesales person rang and I confirmed they were from Anglian and asked them to lodge the following comment word for word on my file which she said he said he would. I then unleashed a stream of highly offensive abuse about the company, the product, the piracy and the mindnumbingly stupid f*ckwits who work there. His reply? Thank you, we will call you at a more convenient time….

  276. DrB

    Dan
    just out of curiosity, what is your local area ?

  277. simon2

    One thing to note aside from reps. I am informed by my local Rooftrim manager that the current “good job” figure stands at around 65%. He said the reason for this is that fitters are subcontracted and don’t get proper training. The down side is if they don’t have the skills the quality of work reflects this.

    However it appears Anglian have at long last recognised this problem, and as per the rooftrim manager, from April all fitting staff will be brought back inhouse and trained.

    In light of this if I were having more fitting done I would have a tendancy to wait until May ’07 ;-)

  278. simon2

    Sales Director….very succinct. I also run a business and find it hard to understand why selling a product of reasonable simplicity takes >2hrs. My sales team deal with IT related products on a daily basis which cost 60k + and we don’t need more that 2hrs to present/define requirement/give indicative costing.

    We never put pressure on the customer as this generally has the reverse effect of putting up barriers. We are always honest and to the point.

    The sales tactics I have personally experienced follow the US sales model rather than UK. And from experience us British certainly don’t like pressure sales.

  279. Bean

    MIDLANDS ANGLIAN CONNIE REP

    Further to my post a couple of months ago regarding weatherseal/supremoglaze. I was only speaking of my experience within weatherseal and not nessesarily of the industry as a whole. While I appreciate all companys are different in some ways, if you were to invite a collection of reps from a number of companies one would begin to notice a trend, as this is what has been proven to work within the industry, both of sales and manafacturing. I did not leave my post to scare people, merely to give them a brief understanding of weatherseal as i know it. I would not want anybody to misconstrue this as me slating any other company. I’m not sure how it is within Anglian but I do also know that within weatherseal there is a vast difference between their connie sales and manafacturing and their window sales and manafacturing, and I only have experience with the latter.

    Bean

  280. Tim

    Well,

    It seems Dan has a problem. He is rude, arrogant, ego-centric and offensive. At least the Anglian sales team had the common decency to act in a civil courteous manner, though they surely must have felt tempted to reply in kind.

    Update: Our conservatory frame has been put up today, bar and roof next week, along with new rear door and window.
    Slight snag in that they ‘couldn’t find the door’ apparently, so we will see what happens next week.

  281. DrB

    Just an update on the gold promo thing…

    ConnieRep has kindly emailed me page 2 of the Terms&Conditions.

    Am awaiting page 1 which has the Early Settlement section.

  282. R Mason

    [personal details removed]

    Anglian Performance

    Dear Sir/Madam,
    I have placed a number of jobs your way over the last 20 years that has covered this property and my previous property.

    At the moment I am disgusted with the attention I have received over the last year because of you failure to maintain a failed lock on one of my patio sliding doors.

    This saga has been going on since July 2006 when the lock failed and because the first maintenance person could not complete the repair I have experienced the pleasure of many phone calls to Reading, Cardiff and Birmingham.
    Why these three areas? Because when the work was undertaken, Reading was too busy and the work was done by Cardiff group

    All of which has been negative to getting the lock repaired.

    Today (14th Feb), I rang Reading inquiring if the maintenance person was coming. Yes, was the reply. An hour later I received a call saying that the appointment was cancelled.
    I look forward to the next appointment (or missed appointment) on Saturday 24 February

    Your track record to date.

    Sept 5th…. Maintenance person turned up and did a temporary repair. Didn’t have the necessary stores. I was asked to wait a month for the stores to arrive, then make an appointment.

    Dec 1st….This was the first available date after allowing a month to pass. On this day no one turned up and no explanation from you.

    Dec 11th ..Spoke to Customer Services. Told to wait for a return call within 2 hours. Did not received a call.
    Dec 12th… Spoke to Customer Services. Told that the local group will contact me before 5.30pm. No one rang.

    Dec 13th… Message on answer phone that a person from Birmingham (Darran) wanted to contact me. Rang him back but he was not available. Rang him the following day but again he was not available.

    Jan 23rd… Anglian ( cold calling –Sales) rang me asking if I wanted any work done. My reply was *£?!

  283. midlands anglian connie rep

    Hi mr Mason

    unfortunately what you are experiencing is not unique. if you read back you will see that i have had windows doors and rooftrim all fitted in december. the installation was fine and like you my door developed a locking problem. unlike you they were out next day to repair it having travelled for 90 miles from bristol. so no complaints there.

    where they are letting themselves down is on communication between depts and basic admin. they still have not sorted out payment for whats been installed and have billed me through ge capital for my conservatory which does not get fitted until the spring.!!

    i too have had the non return of calls and to cap it all ge capital are now demanding payment for something i havent got. guess whos credit score has just suddenly taken a dive. the system needs to be streamlined and made to work effectively by setting up one central dept for each operation eg installs,billing,sales etc instead of having individual areas controlling each aspect of their own install. i personally am trying to deal with 4 seperate regions to sort out one problem. its near impossible and i am inside the system so an outsider has no hope.

    in fairness there arent that many problems especially considering the sheer volume that we do, but they have got to sharpen up what they are doing before it starts to have an adverse effect.

    sites like this are becoming more popular and there is nowhere to hide any more (as our govt is finding out to its cost)
    i am trying to be objective and as impartial as possible without being biased. potential customers browse these sites before buying and as i know to my cost can be quickly swayed against.

  284. Tim

    Well,

    They have just about finished our conservatory. (Anglian that is.) If anybody wants to see pictures I can post or mail them. We are very pleased overall with the product, the fitters have done a good job, and it has made a huge difference to our house. Paul Carnell (sp?) the area conservatory manager has been on the phone a few times, asking for payment to be made in full, but until every last aspect is completed that wont be happening obviously. When Anglian fitted the windows, they were cleaned meticulously, and as an ex-window cleaner my high standards were more than satisfied. They haven’t (as yet) cleaned the connie windows as I would like, including the difficult to clean roof panels, so I’m hoping that doesnt get ‘overlooked’. But I guess the thousand pounds or so that is outstanding would just about cover my time bill if I had to clean it myself.

    Funny thing though. We had a call today from Anglian, and a pleasant sounding young lady informed us of a special offer, whereby we could save £2000 on a conservatory and have a free ‘solar’ roof upgrade. My silly wife put the girl off, but I would have liked to have had the rep round again, to see just where they proposed putting me another new connie? :)

  285. DrB

    Ok, thanks to ConnieRep Im now in possession of the Gold Promo ts&cs.

    SW Rep (see earlier post) is correct when he quotes section 5(2) – its on page 2 of the conditions. So my fault there for not spotting it.

    But it was the section entitled “Early Settlement” which put me off the credit route. It states:

    “If you exercise your right to settle this agreement early, the following amounts will be payable for every £1000 borrowed:
    When a quarter of the term has elapsed £___.

    Where my form had been pre-filled by my rep, it had “900.00” in the “£___.” box.

    So, my reading of the above clause (having missed clause 5(2)) was that the £900 was payable as an additional charge on top of each £1000 originally borrowed, ie a hefty charge for paying off early.

    Now, my question is this: if Im completely wrong in my reading of it, why didnt the rep point this out clearly at the time rather than using the afore-mentioned response.

    cheers
    DrB

    ps. all seems to be going well with manufacture of windows – spoke to croydon office. Was asked to phone back next week when they may be able to give me an installation date.

  286. Simon2

    DrB…..the FSA have clear guidelines regarding any credit agreement. All points need to clearly explained before any contracts can be agreed!

    If this hasn’t been done its worth exploring why not….

  287. caz stapleton

    people are too quick finding fault, sometimes inventing complaints in their effort to get a reduction on the price. However, by tackling the situation with complete honesty, I think a better deal is usually gained. I had some windows put in a couple of months ago, and I found my rep very amenable whilst I haggled him down by £800. This reduced the price to a very acceptable level. I realise he has to make a living, but my budget doesn’t stretch very far, so we achieved a symbiotic deal. I am so pleased with the outcome that I am using them again. At the end of the day you only get what you pay for, and my purchase was Ab Fab. Would reccommend Anglian Windows to anyone. Cheers, Caz X

  288. SW London Anglian Rep

    Dr B

    I have to apologise if the rep you dealt with was unable or unwilling to clarify the basic terms of the finance agreement. It may well be that you implied or stated explicitly that you would pay it off anyway and the rep therefore did not want to take on unprofitable business. On the one hand we are encouraged to take on all business as finance regardless of whether or not the customer says that they have the cash already in place (which is hardly ever true), but on the other hand we often get reprimanded if we tell the customer that they can take the finance option to get the discount and can pay it off with only a small penalty. It’s a tough life for us reps!

    I must say I agree that the wording could make it clearer that the amount in question (£900 odd) is not an additional charge but simply what is left owing. It puzzles me greatly that the people that word these documents never give draft copies to the salespeople that will ultimately use them and ask for feedback on whether they would be easy to explain to a customer or whether they could be worded differently.

    In this case it would help everybody if the “Early Settlement” section stated “If you make NO extra payments over and above your minimum monthly amount then the following balances will still be outstanding for every £1000 originally borrowed [then the examples].

    Anglian, as a commercial organisation with a huge customer base, also has access to good rates on remortgages from well-known brand lenders, so anyone who is offered the standard “Gold” finance package but who is put off by the seemingly high interest rate should ask the rep about “AFS” – Anglian Finacial Services, particularly if they are considering other large purchases or home improvements.

    To address somone else’s comment, I am painfully aware that our customer and marketing data are not updated as often as would be ideal which occasionally results in customers being canvassed when they already have an existing order in the pipeline or, albeit very occasionally but nevertheless hugely embarrassing, while they have a rep actually present in the house. These issues are being addressed but I would ask that people be realistic and not expect all our part-time student telephone canvassers to be sat in front of a computer screen showing our company’s database of highly industry-sensitive customer information.

    I note that recently a number of people have commented that they have had relatively smooth jobs done with only minor problems, but that they feel the various departments do not communicate with each other very well. Plus a number of you said they had less than satisfactory work going back a bit further in time.

    If anyone has unresolved issues regarding a current or past installation or order and feels they would like to express their views, I am attempting to collect feedback on some of the more common issues with a view to collating them and forwarding the most frequent ones to the relevant people and higher to(hopefully) get them addressed once and for all.

    Please email me on the address at the foot of this email.

    I am, of course, also more than willing to give advice and discuss quotes and designs.

    As well as Windows(& Doors), Rooftrim (Fascias, Soffits and Gutters)and our excellent Conservatory range some people may be unaware that we now also undertake Driveways, Garage Conversions and Kitchens. If need be I would pass you to one of the specialists in your area without going through the normal marketing channels. There may well be a cost-saving implication in that instance.

    anglian@blueyonder.co.uk

  289. SW London Anglian Rep

    In response to Simon2, Anglian are regulated by the FSA only because our reps can advise on and provide an element of insurance cover with the loan. As far as I understand we are there is no specific obligation to “clearly explain” the loan facility itself as it is worded very carefully with examples of total payments and there is a more than adequate cooling off period. In my opinion, though, it is a foolish salesperson indeed who doesn’t explain the finance when required as it is in his own interest to do so. The worst thing for a salesperson is filling in all the paperwork and then having the customer revert to the cash price on installation because they didn’t understand some aspect of paying off some or all of the loan and assumed there was some hidden catch (they never phone for advice on the final day of installation, they just hand over a cheque instead).

    Actually, there is one thing worse than that and that is when the customer cancels the finance during the cooling off period, which means either having to go back to the customer to re-explain it and re-instate it with new documents or it means getting a variation signed to convert to a straight cash deal.

    While we are on the subject of finance, can anyone explain to me a peculiar aspect of human nature in that a customer will happily sign up for an inflexible twelve-month “interest-free” deal full of clauses and penalties (and a 3-year lock-in if they miss the final payment date), but that same customer back’s away from a facility that is completely flexible, payable in any time period up to ten years (provided a small minimum is met each month), enhanced with the option to settle early with minimal penalty and a DISCOUNT broadly equivalent to what would have been a year’s interest if the monthly payment was increased enough to pay it off in twelve months?

    I am constantly baffled by this.

  290. DrB

    Ok, update:

    AW phoned me last week, without any prompting from me to arrange installation- today starting at 9-9.30am. (So, as the order was signed on 6th Feb, this is just over 4 weeks from the order which is great.)

    Fitters turned up at 8.45 this morning- so good start.

    Fingers crossed day 1 of install goes to plan… Ill be checking later.

  291. midlands anglian connie rep

    Go on Dr B

    put me out of my misery
    has it all gone TU yet or can you reassure some of the doubters?

  292. Andrew Colman

    I can see why Anglian get such bad consumer reports. I signed a contract for secondary glazing without noticing that one opening window didn’t need to open because it was in front of a non-opening window. The surveyor noticed it, changed the spec accordingly on his official survey, and told me that he expected me to get a price reduction. This never happened, and when I phone the Anglian “Windows and Doors Coordinator” (twice, because he was on the phone to someone else and just ignored the message to call me back), he simply refused, pointing out correctly that I had signed the contract. So, even if the job is well done in the end, Anglian will have saved a few quid but they’ll have one more very unhappy customer who feels he has been treated unfairly.

  293. graeme robertson

    salesman sell at price,if price is too much they are not authorised to quote less. managers do that so lay off the sales reps they don’t want to rip customers off.The companies do,every single one of them.

  294. graeme robertson

    DR B
    Sorry to say if it is too late but Anglian products are mx n match.Your purhase will look great at first but after a year or two will faiil,badly.
    Well done and thanks from all at Anglian your money has just paid for some of our advertising overheads!!!!
    Why do you think it was so cheap?

  295. David P

    I hope Dr B has more joy with AW than I have had. When I went round to clean what I thought were silicone smears off the new glass I found no less than 5 panels were scratched and needed to be replaced. When the replacements arrived one of them was scratched as well….
    The mullions have horizontal welds which are unsightly (I understand other companies polish them out) but also poorly executed (some look as though they’re cracked and some of the joins are out of true).
    The front door is narrower at the bottom than the top – but the frame is wider at the bottom.
    Altogether I’m very disappointed, but I don’t know if my experience is typical. The story isn’t over yet and AW may still resolve these issues – but better quality control would have avoided most of the problems in the first place.
    And in response to Caz – no I’m not looking for a price reduction – I’m looking for the quality I thought I was paying for.

  296. Tim

    Our new £13000 Anglian conservatory is finished.

    At least, it would be if they would come back and do the snagging. Its been 2 weeks now without any comeback from Anglian, although they have the snagging list. I guess when they realise we still owe them a grand they will be on the phone alright.

    And I’ll be glad. I cant wait to hear the explanation for the new wall we had built by ‘them’ (actually just some anonymous subbie to them). Over the course of 1200mm, there is a drop in the line of 18mm. The whole reason I didn’t build the wall myself was that I couldnt be sure that I could do better than +-3mm accuracy. Geez, my 4 year old could have laid a straighter course.

    Of course I am going to have to insist that the whole wall is taken down and rebuilt, much of the new connie with it. Then there is my time in painting the wall to bear in mind, and the inconvenience, hmm, this could work out quite costly for them.

    Anybody like to see pictures of the finished article?

    My advice now, is forget Anglian. You never know who will fit your windows/conservatory. Find a decent local reputable builder, and go with him.

    Comments?

    TJ

  297. midlands anglian connie rep

    Tim
    please send pics to victormark3@btinternet.com
    would be interested to see them.

  298. midlands anglian connie rep

    Andrew

    your contract states an opening window.
    either insist on it or ask for a reduction. it wont be a lot approx £100 depending on style etc but we are quick to do add ons so should be the same with reductions. withold £100 from the final price when you pay on completion, let them argue the toss

  299. SW London Anglian Rep

    In answer to Andrew Colman, actually the surveyor was mistaken. You are not entitled to a reduction. SECONDARY double glazing is sold by the square metre regardless of how many sliding or hinged sections there are. The only other variable charges would be for toughened glass or balanced vertical sliders for large windows above 1 m sq. Surveyors are not privy to the pricing structure so occasionally they can give incorrect info. Any product or price change should be agreed before signing the survey document as that is what becomes the final version of the contract. Normally the surveyor would phone the rep or the sales office or leave a variation form to be posted back with the signed survey once the new price was agreed. In this case there would have been no change anyway.

    In answer to Tim, I’m somewhat surprised that you waited until the whole thing was up before going round and carefully finding fault. If the problem is as pronounced as you say, could you not have spotted it as soon as the brickwork was complete? That’s not to pass blame at all, but it’s just surprising that someone who says they know enough to be able to do the job themselves (albeit to what you consider a low standard), wasn’t able to see what an apparently awful cock-up we made of it until the brickie had gone and a later set of fitters had then arrived to fit the sides and roof and complete the work sufficiently well for you to hand over a cheque for £12k.

    Before writing us off completely, lets wait and see if we do in fact rectify the problem and go to the expense of a total rebuild or offer a satisfactory explanation of why the work was done this way. Is it possible, for instance, that the wall has been built flush to an existing structure that isn’t quite vertical and that fitting the windows against this structure would require filling a gap if the wall was exactly horizontal?

    Hopefully Midlands Connie Rep will be able to help more.

    As a rep I always tell my customers not to sign the satisfaction note or hand over any money until they actually are satisfied. It just amazes me the number of customers that pay and then go looking for faults. This may be a quirk of human nature that the company should take more account of. Personally, I’d like to see more recognition of which fitters have done what standard of job. When I speak to customers they are rarely able to tell me the names of their fitters no matter how good a job they’ve done yet it would be easy to give them a little certificate saying “your Anglian [product] was installed by…”

    I’m not sure about how the building work is arranged but we do enough business in most areas of the country to be able to use the same people on a repeat basis so I really don’t see how an “anonymous subbie” would get away with doing a bad job for us more than once.

    Graeme says something about companies “ripping off ” customers. What do people consider a rip-off? If big companies with worthwhile guarantees always sold at the sort of prices charged by small local resellers of bought-in products then the big companies would go bust just like the small companies do. So what they do is try to get the best price they can for their product, as you are entitled to do in a free market economy and when they need extra business to reach critical production levels they may offer lower prices, possibly in exchange for some advertising by way of a display board.

    If I put my house on the market at a high price and manage to sell it to the first buyer that comes along and I get 10k more than I was realistically expecting does that make me a villain, a good negotiator or just plain lucky? Was my buyer “ripped off”? Is the high street bookie ripping punters off when he offers only evens on a 3 to 2 shot?
    Was Harrod’s ripping everybody off when they later sell the same stuff in their famous January sale for half-price?

  300. Tim

    Believe me, If I had been able to be on site during the build, then not a brick would have been laid without my watching over the shoulder :) However, we had a death in our company, of a high level executive, and the weeks since January have involved many 7 day 80 hour weeks. The last thing on my mind was checking up on yet another persons work.
    The problem came to light as soon as it possibly could, that is, as soon as I could get on the newly screed floor with a step ladder to actually put a level across the new brickwork. The only other persons in a position to have spotted the problem were the actual frame fitters, but if they did spot the problem, then they deliberately decided to ignore it. (If they didn’t spot it, they must be blind. Or stupid.) As a trained carpenter/joiner I do know a little about fitting frames to ‘straight’ walls, and also know what is expected and reasonable. I also know that even the best spirit levels are accurate only to +-3mm over 1000mm, and that by flipping the level on each course you effectively reduce the error to 1.5mm/1000mm. I will send pics to midland connie rep to illustrate the problem.
    BTW, there is never a “cheque for £12k”. You pay a deposit on ordering, then staged payments as the work progresses. Although the area manager did phone requesting that full payment be made with the last visit of the fitters, I instructed my wife not to pay them the final 10% until I had opportunity to do a complete inspection.

    The subbie used is not anonymous as such, I wont reveal his name at this stage though. I use the term “Anonymous” in that the guys used are not full time dedicated Anglian fitters. They work under their own names for their own jobs. To say that individual teams should be given recognition for their work is to admit that some of them fall below standard. really, only one level of service should be acceptable, excellence. Anglian conservatories are not ‘cheap’ or ‘budget’ items, and customers are justified in expecting quality workmanship. While I am quite vociferous on behalf of Anglians products, as regards quality, (see my previous posts), the subbies themselves leave a lot to be desired in some cases. I guess we got unlucky in the lottery and got a bad subbie.

    I finally have this weekend off work I think, so I will go out with my camera and take a few shots, of both the good and the bad points. The conservatory itself is very nicely made, and is a real enhancement to our property. Its just a shame that the quality of some of the work is very poor.

    We will contact the office this week and get somebody out.

    Incidentally, we have been sent the guarantee forms, which we were advised would be sent when final payment was made?

    My opinion now is that as a company, although offering quality products, Anglian are too big/busy to offer a high quality service in every instance. Prove me wrong?

  301. midlands anglian connie rep

    tim
    good concise post. you are right on a lot of points. cant prove you wrong as have been for a few beers after the rugby so not quite compose mentis. pse send pics and i will advise you further
    connie

  302. SW London Anglian Rep

    Perhaps a system should be introduced whereby an installation manager inspects all base work before the fitters are booked to start construction. I think the fitters themselves are far too motivated to get on with the job to hold everything up because of a slightly wonky wall that they might only notice once they are on site, prepped and ready to get underway. Afterall, it’s the loss of a day’s work to them if they can’t proceed.

    The trouble is a lot of customers wouldn’t want the delay. They expect the job to start and finish with no breaks.

    I’m really not quite clear on whether or not stage payments are made on the understanding that “this part is complete so pay us only if you are happy for us to proceed to the next stage”. I would have thought that the point of doing it in paid stages was so that any errors would be picked up before further costs were incurred, rather than simply charging for the whole job only on completion and THEN looking for errors.

  303. midlands anglian connie rep

    spot on sw

    when the team arrives to install the product. they basically want to finish the job so that they can be paid. any wonky brickwork is not their fault and as long as they can physically fit it they will go ahead. if a customer does their own base it will be inspected by an install manager prior to a fitting date being fixed. logic says that should happen with all bases irrespective of who does them, but finance and time management dictates that our own base builders are trusted.

    have seen tims pics and wish i had stayed on the beer. i could then have blamed my eyesight. he does have a serious problem with his levels. i am helping him as best i can and he will doubtless keep you posted

    connie

  304. DrB

    Ok, update on my windows- apologies for delay.

    Fitters (x2) started on Wed March 7th and continued the following day.
    They were not around on the Fri as the senior fitter had a days holiday booked- in fairness he pointed this out on day one. And not a massive problem to me. After the 2 days I inspected what they had done so far. There was a lot of cracked plaster from taking old windows out- this I expected. A few of the plastic internal sills had been cut not quite square so they didn’t quite line up (1/8-1/4″ gaps).
    Also, the door had been measured wrongly so that it was about an inch too big to fit. Thus plaster and window board down one wall had to be removed and cut back (plaster was thick).

    I phoned and fairly easily arranged for them to come back the following Thurs (15th). On the day they turned up an hour late, although this wasn’t a problem for me as my father was on site all day. They spent the day making good and finishing off. In the evening I got to site and inspected before they left. The guy showed me around what they’d done and also mentioned a few things that would need doing on a return visit:
    – slightly damaged and therefore stiff front door lock
    – kitchen trickle vent needs adding
    – sills need end caps
    Given that the above was recorded on the paperwork that I signed and that the work looked fine I signed off and paid the remaining balance.

    Conclusions:
    – I got my windows for a damn good price after lots of haggling- even local double glazing companies couldn’t believe/beat the price.
    – AW phoned me when they said they would to arrange installation.
    – Fitters turned up (roughly) when they said they would, and were helpful and courteous.
    – Fitting was about as good as you could expect given the wonky walls and ceilings of our old property (I’m a perfectionist when it comes to these things and they’ve generally done a good job).

    After talking to a lot of people I think a lot of it depends on what fitters you get, and also what money they are making from the job- remember, they make a _percentage of the manufactured cost_ of the windows (from the horses mouth). So if you go for more expensive windows (eg more opening lights, or leaded) then in theory they get more money for the same fitting time, and are probably more happy to spend more time and thus care on the installation.

    Anyway, I’ve been busy since the installation, but now I have to get round to calling AW up to get them to come and fix the lock etc…. if it works out ok, then I’m thinking of getting a conservatory done by them. If not, Ill go elsewhere.

    Hope the above helps.

    DrB

  305. SW London Anglian Rep

    Dr B

    If you’d care to email me on anglian@blueyonder.co.uk I’ll give you contact details of a first class Connie rep that lives local to you and will give you not only the best design ideas but will be able to make sure you get the best fitters and good follow-up. I’ll insist that he gives you a sensible price as well.

    Obviously I will receive a small bonus for passing the lead to Anglian as it saves their marketing cost, but you get a better deal out of it as does the rep in question so everyone’s happy. Thus far all the customers I’ve refered to him have sung his praises.

    In return I’d be happy to chase up any outstanding issues with your windows installation.

    I’m based in Surbiton, in case you were wondering.

  306. DrB

    SW
    thanks for offer- sounds good.

    Not sure exactly when the connie will figure on my plans as yet though (I have a house to finish renovating and a wedding to participate in!)

    On the chasing front, I phoned AW yesterday, left a message and the guy phoned me back within the hour. So hopefully all will be sorted in next few days.

    Also for info, Im based Wimbledon area and the install was handled by the Croydon office.

  307. Andrew Colman

    I’m grateful to SW Anglian Rep for explaining that secondary glazing is priced by the square metre irrespective of the number of opening windows, implying that I’m not entitled to any price reduction from the error resulting in an opening window having to be changed to a fixed pane on the installation.

    This is daft, in my opinion. And obviously a customer in my position is likely to feel upset and unfairly treated. For the sake of £100 or whatever the company ends up with an aggrieved customer who is unlikely to recommend them to friends and relations, who in turn may warn their friends and relations off.

    I tried writing to the Cheif Executive Officer, Alex McNutt, who has a reputation for caring about customer relations, saying all this. All that happened was that I got a phone call from an area representative saying what SW Anglian Rep has said and expressing surprise (the tone of voice implied disbelief) that this had dnot been explained to me. Then, a few days later, I got a letter from the Customer Relations Department stating that my letter had been received and that I would be receiving a response in due course. The truth is that the company seems to do very nicely in spite of its reputation problems, as evidenced by this web site.

  308. SW London Anglian Rep

    If you’re talking about horizontally sliding or hinged secondary glazing there may not have been an “error” as such – some customers have them fixed in front of non-opening windows, while others prefer them to slide across for cleaning purposes. I usually suggest the latter and mark the schedule accordingly but I don’t think it’s especially critical. Later the surveyor finalises it with the customer anyway. It just seems to be the surveyor’s comment that seems to have caused the confusion here. Since you were happy to place the order at the agreed price ask yourself if you honestly only changed the design thinking it would get you £100 off the price or would you have done it that way anyway if it had been suggested in the first place?

    I’m not sure it’s entirely realistic to expect the CEO to write to individual customers himself on any but the most serious of disputes. As a company Anglian take in excess of a thousand orders a week and therefore routinely have to deal with customers on a daily basis who simply try to renegotiate a price after Anglian are already committed, all of whom have seemingly plausible reasons for wanting to pay less. Nearly all these matters, legitimate or not, can be resolved at a local level. Remember also that agreeing a price for a job and collecting payment in full after installation is what keeps a company in business and makes it’s guarantee worth having so compensation is rarely paid unless there is fair and reasonable justification.

    It’s regrettable that you feel agrieved enough not to want to reccommend Anglian to anybody because of this misunderstanding on survey but I trust that in all other respects you are, or will be, reasonably satisfied with your purchase and hope that you change your mind in time. I’ll even offer to pay you the hundred quid myself if you can put enough business my way!

    Incidentally, if anyone is wondering how many people emailed me with their grievances after I took the risk of posting my email address on here several many posts ago requesting feedback of this very nature the biblical flood of complaints I was expecting actually turned out to be rather less than I had anticipated. In fact it was precisely zero.

  309. Andrew Colman

    Of course SW London Anglian Rep makes reasonable comments, and of course the issue is not over £100 or my trying to get a reduction in price — this never even entered my head until the alteration was recommended — but it’s all a matter of feeling farily treated versus feeling ripped off. Everyone I’ve mentioned this to, without exception, has felt that Anglian ought to have made a gesture, at least.

    Incidentally, I have now received THREE letters through the post acknowledging my letter and telling me that I’ll receive a reply in due course. This is presumably the “sorry, no” reply that I received straight away by phone. Customer relations are obviously a shambles at Anglian. But they make a fortune anyway.

  310. SW London Anglian Rep

    It’s not really any great surprise that everyone you described the situation to (in your choice of words) agrees with you – little guy versus big corporation, etc – but the fact of the matter is Anglian did not price the job incorrectly, nothing has been made incorrectly and nothing has been damaged so what are the grounds for re-pricing? If my cable company replaces my modem with an up-to-date version and the engineer says that he thinks I should get something off my bill for returning the old one in good condition I might try it on with customer services but if they turned around and said “I’m sorry but our engineer was misinformed – that model is out of date and of no use to us” I would not be cursing them and bad-mouthing them to my friends for an otherwise good service.

    The fact that you’ve had several letters from customer services suggests that your letter has been looked at by more than one person/dept and is therefore not being dismissed out of hand. Surely that’s not as negative as you seem to see it. Who knows – you might get lucky yet.

    Just out of interest roughly what square meterage are we talking and at what price?

  311. Andrew Colman

    The cost was £1,985.

    I don’t know about square meterage. I have seven windows marked on the Product specification as

    150 x 125
    60 x 125
    60 x 125
    150 x 90 (vertical slider)
    205 x 125
    100 x 155
    150 x 155.

    I think this may add up to 11.16 square metres.

    Incidentally, I don’t agree with your initial comments. The fact is that Anglian made a mistake. It’s not a question of my choosing to return something in perfectly good condition. That’s a really misleading comparison. Also, you brush aside the opinions of all the people I’ve told about this, but what I didn’t mention is that most of them can hardly believe that pricing is done by square meterage alone. If this were widely known, people might order a lot more opening windows in their secondary glazing units. And, as many pointed out, if true, it’s simply daft.

    The windows were fitted this morning. One (the second-to-last in my list) was the wrong size and was unusable. Just £100 was taken off the invoice, which had to be settled on the spot. I’m sure you’ll think this is all fine and dandy, but according to my electronic abacus, I should have got nearly £300 off. I certainly don’t blame the fitters, and I don’t even blame the surveyor or the manufacturer who made the error. The real problem is the extremely unpleasant and bullying manner in which Anglian employees interact with their customers.

    Best

    Andrew Colman

  312. SW London Anglian Rep

    I have to “brush aside” the comments of your friends and colleagues really to point out that they are hardly likely to disagree with you when they are only hearing your version of events as the hard-done-by man-on-the-street against the evil doings of the faceless corporate entity. It’s not as if you are claiming that a rival company in a similar circumstance made some super-generous gesture. Besides, you appear to have had the job done for considerably less than the price Anglian normally expect to get for a job of that size so there would be extremely limited room for manoeuvre anyway when compared to a full price job.

    As for what total outsiders choose to call the “daft” pricing, in the case of, for example, secondary horizontal sliders it’s as easy to have both sides sliding as it is to have one fixed and only one sliding. Similar probably applies to other configurations. So it’s easier and more cost effective to price the simpler arrangements on square meterage than it is to train sales staff to take up a lot more of their’s and the customer’s time designing and pricing every last detail, which the surveyor is better able to do and quite likely to alter with respect to the original design anyway.

    Is the non-fitting window not being re-made then? That’s what should happen.

    I have to say that it isn’t ideal for the installers to be responsible for requesting payment, especially if there’s any dispute but, unfortunately, it IS the best time for a company to try to ensure payment and reduce the risk of going bankrupt, which does, of course, increase the worth of the guarantee.

    Myself, I would prefer if an installation manager inspected the job first or if the fitters rang the sales office so that the manager could ask the customer how everything went and whether they were happy to sign the job as complete or to negotiate a partial settlement pending whatever else further needed to be done. This is hardly something for a fitter to be doing.

    Given the strength of your words. I am assuming, of course, that you are referring to the fitters when you say “extremely unpleasant and bullying manner” (otherwise I would be very surprised that you had gone ahead with the order in the first place). Have you expressed this view in a letter to Head Office yet? This would seem to be far more serious than the issue about the £100 refund claim and likely to get a more thorough investigation. Ultimately it would be more beneficial for all concerned if this was the matter you chose to bring to Anglian’s attention.

  313. Andrew Colman

    I don’t want to continue this debate — it’s water under the bridge — but I’ll add this final comment. Of course I’m claiming that other companies behave a lot better. Normally, when they make a mistakes, most good companies go out of their way to make amends, and when a customer is obviously unhappy, even when the company does not agree that it made a mistake, most try to meet the customer half way, at least. SW London Anglian Rep is trying to imply that Anglian’s customer relations are quite normal, as we might expect him/her to, but of course most readers know that this is just nonsense.

    Incidentally, I thought I’d made it clear that my problems were with Anglian people. I certainly had no problems with the fitters, who were just obeying orders and could hardly be blamed for a wondow being the wrong size. And no, I’m not asking for the window to be remade and going through all this again. I’ve taken more than enough time off work already and just can’t afford the time.

  314. SW London Anglian Rep

    Oh that’s just great! Claim that our staff have an “extremely unpleasant and bullying manner” without properly substantiating it and then say you don’t wish to continue the debate.

    Regarding customer service, I always suggest to my customers that they contact me personally if there is any problem and I consider that this is a big step towards offering good after-sales (and it gets me a fair amount of repeat business and reccommendations so I’m not claiming to be some kind of saint). I am constantly appalled at the number of customers who never even consider ringing the representative to give them a chance to resolve things, when that is quite clearly the one person within the company who is most familiar with all the details of the job. I am also surprised that someone who claims to find “Anglian people” (as they put it) “extremely unpleasant and bullying” would nevertheless happily place an order. If you don’t mean the fitters nor, I assume, the surveyor, who actually suggested (albeit wrongly) that you might get some money off, then you must be referring to people that you would have dealt with prior to placing an order, viz-a-viz the person with whom you made the appointment, the manager who confirmed the appointment and finally the sales rep with whom you must have been comfortable enough to place an order. I suggest, therefore, that either your description of Anglian people is unfairly extreme or you are quite unusual in willingly doing business with people you strongly dislike.

    You also say that “normally, when they make a mistake, most good companies go out of their way to make amends”. Well we’ve made a window that seems not to fit, which we would happily remake and fit as per the agreed contract at the agreed price in a reasonable time (ideally one visit, but not always possible – it is a bespoke product designed for a tight fit, afterall) however you have refused to allow us to fulfill that contract so we have instead made a nominal reduction to account for goods ordered that are now no longer required. The fact that you have had to take time off work to allow this job to be done on your house is not really an argument against us being allowed sufficient opportunity to complete the job in a “reasonable” time, i.e. to quote (evening/weekend), to survey (a morning or afternoon), to fit(normally up to a day in this case), to return for a refit or adjustment (an hour or two).

    I really can’t see what the major grievance is here at all.

  315. Tim

    UPDATE;

    We have spoken with the Installations Manager for Anglian Conservatories and informed him of our problem. He didn’t seem to respond or indeed care about anything during the phone call, and the wife wondered if he had just been told he was being made redundant…but thats by the by.
    The very next day, surprise surprise, his assisatant phoned and said he was chasing the final installment. Well the wife had a good laugh and explained why we weren’t gonna pay anything for now, and what they gonna do?
    On the phone it must be said that the IM was quite re-assuring, in the condescending manner that most self-important nobodys seem to effect that is, but basically the phone agreement was that if we wanted the wall rebuilt, then we would have it rebuilt. Simple.

    So we will see. I have yet to finish laying my beautiful but hideously expensive (even to me who trades in the stuff) golden travertine flooring. When that is done then he will come out and get things moving.

    Will post when something happens.

  316. DrB

    All done.

    Same fitters came back on Fri (23rd) (as agreed with myself) and spent about 15 minutes finishing all the little bits (sill ends, hinge caps, lock barrel change etc).

    So, all in all Im happy with the installation.

    My other-half-to-be threatened me with divorce at the mere mention of the word ‘conservatory’ so it’ll have to wait. Ive got your email tho SW.

    cheers and good luck.
    DrB

  317. Simon2

    Hmmmm Anglian seem to go high on driveways too. My neighbour got a quote for block paving like I had done by a local trader.

    The sales-person visited her. Pointed out loads of problems with my driveway that didn’t exist and then had the ordasity to quoted her 6.5k for pretty much the same surface area. (I paid 2.7k)

    My driveway was done by a friend-of-friend who runs a local business and is very thorough. In fact they go ~18inches down and build up from there to ensure everything stays in place :-)

  318. charles

    Anglian have installed a conservatory, front door and windows in the past. They have just fitted two front bay windows. Job completed on time and, apart from one small defect, to our entire satisfaction. Excellent workmen. Salesman starts at some inflated price but comes down to earth when you quote competetive prices from other installers.
    From past experience we know that their back up is good with no quibbles.

  319. alex

    Well Anglian is a complete swearword in our house too! Spent £26K on a WOODEN conservatory 3 years ago. Back doors are rotten and leaking! It turns out that the glass was installed incorrectly and the windows may go the same way. Anglian (after 14 yes 14 months of discussion) have agreed to replace doors and refit window glass but not replace window wood. I have asked for a new gaurantee, (wood frames only get 5 years) and have been refused. SO in 1year and 8 months when my old guarantee runs out my £26k conservatory may rot and there isnt a thing I can do! Trading standards have said they cant help. Anybody got any suggestions? Thinking of writing to watchdog. Anybody interested?

  320. simon2

    I agree Anglian backup is good and the followup seems excellent. Just the initial sales patter needs some review in my opinion and when they bring the workforce “in-house” come April/May they should be as good as they used to be when I had windows done in ~2000

  321. Tim

    @ Simon2

    Comparisons are only useful if you are comparing like for like.
    I trade in hard landscaping materials including block paving, and can buy the standard cheap concrete 60mm blocks which fade and discolour at about a fifth of the price of decent paviors.

    And as regards ‘going down 18″‘ to ensure everything stays in place, I can tell you for a fact that at the factory where the blocks are made there is 2 or 3 acres of storage yard all blocked out in 80mm seconds, and the standard 150mm MOT and 50mm sand are more than sufficient, even considering the yard is filled with 40ton trucks day after day.
    Of course all of us in business try to get the best deal for ourselves, else there is no point being in business, but the general rule still applies, especially so with building materials like blocks;
    You pay cheap, you get cheap.

    cheers

  322. Simon2

    Agreed…..cheap does not always mean good so you have to find someone who charges honestly.

    We do the same in business. We are not the cheapest but then we are not the most expensive either but we assure ourselves repeat business through being a safe pair of hands.

    By the way blocks used were “Drivesett” by Marshalls….are they any good?

    Yes i saw the standard was 150mm+50mm…..might have exagerated about 18″ but then again I am a guy :-)

  323. midlands anglian connie rep

    Hi alex

    Agree 14 months haggle over the doors is not bright. however there must have been some issue as i know that we replace faulty parts pretty rapidly. pse let me know what the exact problem was.

    as to your window frames, if they are not rotten then why should they be replaced or given another 5 years. if the faulty fit rotted your doors then surely the windows would also have been affected. as they are ok no company in the land is going to replace them just on a ” perhaps it might happen ” basis
    have you thought of getting an independent structural survey done if you are so unhappy.

  324. alex

    hi midlands anglian connie rep Thanks for your reply, I do appreciate your opinion. The 14 months took so long because a member of the service team visited the site, then left the dept 2 weeks later. When I called the office, I was told that service dept had moved to yorkshire. told that a visit from yorkshire to cheshire was tricky so would I email pictures. Did so and after many phone calls (was accused of using heat gun on wood!) it was agreed that it wasnt good! The service dept moved back to cheshire and nobody knew anything of my issue. Had to start all over again. This was 6 months in. Then spoke to guy in charge of service dept (director level) who promised someone would call me. weeks later and no response. called again, further service visit, no reply for 2 months. Everytime I called the service department I would have to wait for 1 month before they could visit. Then the Manager of the dept came out. he then had to discuss with boss. Why do I have to chase these problems all the time. Finally gave up with calling local office and just called head office all the time, who to be fair where excellent.
    I would like to say that my friend is in charge of customer services for Moben kitchens and they would give me a brand new gaurantee and a cash sum to compensate me for inconvenience even after product had been fitted for 5 years. Please remember that Anglian fitted the units wrongly so that the rain over the last 3 and a bit years has been entering the wood. We have pointed out that the corners of the windows are starting to go but not classed as bad enough. If FORD/VAUXHALL etc fit a part that is incorrect, they will recall every car that has that part fitted, JUST IN CASE. I have worked at Rank Hovis McDougall, and if 1 of our customers where disappointed with our food products, they were reimbursed the WHOLE of the meal cost plus a compensation allowance. And that is just for a 70p tub of gravy not a £26k conservatory.

  325. midlands anglian connie rep

    sorry to take so long to reply. manic end of quarter!!

    unfortunately you do appear to be on the wrong end of some poor customer service. i cant pretend it never happens because it does, as you will testify, but i will say that it is rare and i know that in the midlands nearly all snags have been rectified. we install well over 200 conservatories every week nationally and it is only the snags that tend to be made public. people as a rule tend to prefer to highlight the bad and not the good. makes for better reading.

    pse photo your window frames and email them to me. i can then advise further.

  326. alex

    Hi Connie thanks for the reply. It really is nice to hear an honest answer not the usual PR drivel (and having worked in marketing, I know all about it!) I do indeed have photos of the windows so if you could find a way to get me your email address i will mail them to you. thanks again alex

  327. midlands anglian connie rep

    Hi Alex

    post no 297 has email adress

  328. Norman

    After reading through this site I don’t know if I should just put up with my old, cold, single glazed windows. It seems to be just ‘luck’ on getting the right company/salesperson/product/fitting team or after sales service. Usually (from the comments posted), never all in one package.
    I had ‘Safestyle’ around for a quote a few weeks ago, Ha! what a joke, I think he’s still in the house somewhere, still reducing his price. he must owe me loads of money by now??
    Last night I had Anglian around. What a shock that was. He was a totally nice bloke, stayed less than an hour and gave a quote of £5000 for 9w+1fd+facias etc (terrace). I dont know if this is good/bad or average. Still a few quotes to get.
    The price was dependent on a ‘Platinum?’ finance package (even though I said at the start I wanted a cash sale, IF they got the work), otherwise the price would be over 7k.
    Does anyone know if this is a good quote? Is this ‘package’ worth having for the extra discount? What are the fitters like in the Wirral/Chester area that work/sub for Anglian?

  329. SW London Anglian Rep

    Do you mean nine separate holes in the wall and no multi-part bays when you say nine windows and is the front door a molded PVC or a “Classic” Glass Reinforced Plastic door and does it have any windows around it? Are you a mid-terrace with or without a reaar extension with felt edging.

    The relative affordability of the “Gold” (not “Platinum”) account depends on where the cash is actually coming from. Are you intending to borrow it from somewhere? If so, at what rate? Also, are you intending to take the loan insurance?

  330. Nora

    If there’s anyone out there considering purchasing windows or a conservatory from Anglian Home Improvements, read this sorry tale and be warned!!! I have purchased several times (several enlargements to same house) and am appalled at both the quality of the installation and poor customer service. (note that the quality of the double glazed sealed units seems to be ok). £26,000 conservatory came out of its 10 yr warranty Feb. ’07. However, several faults became apparent late Dec ’06 and Anglian contacted then. At the same time, Anglian was notified of a number of other problems with more recent windows installations still well within their 15 yr. warranty. The conservatory problems are: Glass slipped out of position on the roof leaving us open to the sky, hence water, leaves, etc coming in. Damage to rug and furniture, etc. Roof light leaking. Cover over steelwork is buckling. Outside, most of the trim to guttering has come off. Windows, none conform to building regs as fire escape windows, which the survey should have picked up and did not. 12ft high 3 bay window was incorrectly installed and has gradually allowed water in around edges, hence blown plaster inside room.
    Now follows chronicle of my contact with Anglian (note: employee’s names not published, although of couse, I have them, and local Anglian depot is Reading, Berks.):
    Appointment booked with Reading Depot for 1 service engineer to visit 12th Jan. No one turned up. Booked another appointment with Reading Depot for 15th Jan.
    1 service engineer turns up 15th Jan. Cannot fix any of the issues on his own and office has told him only 1 unit of time has been allowed equating to 10 minutes.
    Next tried head of service from Reading Depot. He came 24th Jan, noted down all issues, returned to his office and resigned, not passing on any information to anyone.
    Next, tried Norwich who said Reading no longer has a head of service – all such issues now being dealt with by Head Office Norwich, and booked 2 service engineers for 8th Feb. Two engineers turn up on 8th Feb. Cannot fix any of the issues because they don’t have the hinges for the windows to convert them to fire escape windows, cannot fix conservatory roof or huge leaking window because they need scaffolding and have not been booked for enough time. This is the 4th visit, and they came having no idea about what the faults were, or what equipment or parts were needed despite countless telephone calls from me to make sure they knew what they were coming to do. These engineers promised to write a full report to submit to their boss. I next booked an appointment for 2 engineers for 1 1/2 days, as advised by previously visited engineers. March 13th and 14th booked, no one turned up. Several long phone conversations with ‘the girls’ at customer service, Norwich and still, no response from anyone. Please note that NOT ONCE DID ANGLIAN CONTACT ME TO MAKE A FOLLOW UP APPOINTMENT!!! I have chased each time, and I have made the booking for each engineers appointment. Now, Anglian are telling me that the warranty expired on the conservatory Feb. ’07 (note that I contacted them Dec. ’06 and they visited twice Jan. ’07 and have to date rectified precisely nothing!!!). The windows are less than 5 yrs. old so well within warranty. In nearly 4 months of constant badgering, Anglian has not resolved a single issue, despite each of 4 engineers and a local service manager standing in my house and agreeing that the installations were faulty. My solicitor has quoted £2,000 to commence legal proceedings, which I might or might not get back in court. The final irony is that I am in the process of obtaining planning permission for work requiring LOTS more windows and french doors and no prizes for guessing who WON’T be winning this business!!!

  331. SW London Anglian Rep

    On the surface this treatment sounds appalling.

    Are you claiming compensation or do you want the job put right? If the former the small claims court is a lot cheaper (it used to be limited to claims upto £3,000 but it might be more now).

    Otherwise, would you care to email me on

    Anglian@blueyonder.co.uk

    and I’ll see if I can sort anything out for you.

    I’ll need your name address and postcode and, if you have them to hand, the job reference numbers for all the separate windows jobs and particularly the consrevatory. The Reading windows jobs normally begin “014” followed by five more digits. The conny number will have a different prefix.

    Remember to add your own number and any
    contact names/numbers of people you’ve already been dealing with.

    I assume these fire escape windows are upstairs bedroom windows, yes?

  332. alex

    hi nora
    I to have struggled with a £26k anglian conservatory please read post 319 and 324. I am seriously thinking of writing to Watchdog and many of the national papers to warn people out there about how bad Anglian can be. Like you I have a glass roof and I can now say that I am worried about that moving over the next 5 years. If you would also like to complain to watchdog just let me know. Alex

  333. midlands anglian connie rep

    Hi alex and nora

    have either of you contacted alex McNutt our managing director. he took over last year and is the proverbial new broom

  334. alex

    Hi Midlands Anglian Connie Rep. I think your suggestion of contacting Alex McNutt your managing director is excellent. Please can you forward me his contact details and I will do just that!

    Alex

  335. SW London Anglian Rep

    Head office will give you the correct address. Their number is 01603 787 000. I think a written letter sent by recorded delivery would be better than an email. Remember to include any job reference number(s) and names of people you’ve dealt with. I’ve met Alex McNutt and he’s very interested in shaking things up on the installations/service side of things.
    It’s high time that fobber-offers and bad fitters were named and shamed.

  336. michelle

    Hi Am looking to buy patio doors and front door, can anypone recommend a co in kent to me, have quote from supa glazing, and britelite, but dont know what to do. There sales tactics were no probs though, no complaints.

  337. Paul

    Seems I’m not the only one withj Anglian problems. I live in North Shrops and bought my conservatory in 2002. It has bewen a catalogue of disasters from day 1 – problems with failing to put in steps, bad colour matches on bricks and gravel, level differences of 1 inch between adjoining rooms, bad building practices, a soakaway that overflows after a gallon of water etc etc. Worst thing is that the roof has leaked from day 1. OK so the bowl on the floor is a talking point but after 4 Christmasses with people falling over it I’m more than a little fed up. I’ve had numerous “service” visits with consequent time off work and, like iothers I’ve had no-shows and I’ve always been the one who has had to do all the chasing.
    Called the service centre today (how many staff do they have to answer the phone – it took me 36 mins !!) and was told that they could get someone out in mid July.
    Any bright ideas?

  338. SW London Anglian Rep

    Send me the details and I’ll get someone to look into this.

    I need the job reference number and the name of the depot it was fitted from plus any numbers or contacts you have been using.

    Anglian@blueyonder.co.uk

  339. Tim

    Some regular readers will be aware of the problems with our recently fitted Anglian Conservatory.
    To re-cap, we had a new wall built by an Anglian fitter, which is built on a slope. (the wall slopes). Eventually the guy (Ewan something or other, has a fat neck) came out and offered to plaster over it. Yeah right. I said he could do that and we would call it quits (I still owe them £1300). He poo-pooed that idea, and so I insisted that the only realistic option then was to rebuild the wall. Fine says fat neck. Next week says I. Fine says fat neck.
    Next week came and went 2 weeks ago, and no contact, not even a courtesy call to say “Oops, fat neck cocked up, we cant do it that week but how about..xxx etc)”.
    So as far as I am concerned, they can sing for the money. There is no way I am going to hand over the final payment, and there is no way I am going to let another Anglian fitter onto my property, given that the time period I alloted for that has now expired. This is in accord with advice I received from trading standards. I really really hope they want to take this further, I’d love to get to a court with it.

    What say we set up an Anglian Conservatory website, with pictures and stories? We could probably get it sponsored by a rival company too LOL.

  340. Tim

    Oh Paul Btw, you said
    “level differences of 1 inch between adjoining rooms”

    I think you got off light. We had a level difference of 1 inch in the SAME room. ie, the screed floor was 1″ higher at the french doors than it was at the kitchen door. Made laying my new travertine flooring a real PITA.

    I repeat my earlier advice to anybody reading this and looking for a conservatory. Find a decent local builder with a good reputation, and use them. If you are in the Coventry/Warwick/Leamington area I can recommend people.
    As good as the Anglian product itself appears to be, you will most likely be disappointed by the standard of fitting, and aftercare service.

  341. alex

    re my post 324. The saga continues. Anglian finally came out to replace my rotten back doors and refit the windows as they should have been during installation. 1 of the 2 doors arrived already broken so had to be sent back. The other door was fitted, when it started to rain the door leaked. When I rang head office they told me I would have to wait a month to recieve a call out. 2 guys were sent to do a total of 10 man hours and they managed to replace 5 of the 18 windows and 1 of the 2 doors. Dont know when they will be back to do the rest! Now going to write to managing director at head office and BBC Watchdog at http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and_radio/watchdog/contact_index.shtml. Maybe if we can warn people before they buy an anglian conservatory we can save them some heartache too! Personally I have no energy left to chase it up (after 18 months of it) but then if I dont do it Anglian win!

  342. Mark

    My problem pales considerably, compared to some here, but as it’s annoying me I shall post it anyway.

    Had the whole house done with Anglian windows and doors, some years back. No complaints: salesman was polite and nothing like the Zenith idiot who was with us till gone midnight (I had to sign up just to get rid of him – I canceled first thing next day). Windows are fine and were fitted with no probs.

    A few years ago, we decided to have French Doors fitted and obviously decided to stick with Anglian. Again, no probs at all.

    Last year, one of the door stays (cabin hooks) that prevent it blowing in the wind, broke. The metal snapped.

    Phoned Anglian (first time I’ve ever had to call them)and they arranged for a fitter to come and change it. It took 3 months before he arrived and he bought the wrong size cabin hook with him. He promised to return the following week. But didn’t.

    At the beginning of the year, I phoned Anglian CS and was assured someone would come and sort it out. No-one did.

    In March I rang and asked if they would send me the hooks in the post and I would fit them myself. The very nice lady said she would arrange for that and would phone me back to confirm. No hooks, no phone call.

    At the beginning of May, I rang and spoke to another very nice lady, who sympathised with my problem and assured me that she would get some in the post to me within a week and would definitely ring me back to confirm she had done so. Still no hooks and no phone call.

    I’d like to write a snotty letter to Anglian’s head office, but can’t find their address. It’s not on their website – well, I can’t find it.

    Anglian’s website promises “unparalleled customer care”.

    So far, I agree: it’s unparalled.

  343. alex

    hi mark
    The address you need to complain to is the head office address below. I sent my complaint to the top man Alex McNutt who is the CEO. I sent it registered post.
    Anglian Windows Ltd
    National co-ordination office
    Unit 3 Rhombus Park
    Sapphire Way
    Diamond Road
    Norwich
    NR6 6NN
    It is worth noting that the reply I got took 10 days and was addressed to the wrong person, and they said they are looking into it! so don’t expect too much. hope this helps. alex

  344. SW London Anglian Rep

    I’ve never understood the willingness of Anglian (or the fitter himself) to go all the way out to a customer’s house with an item that might turn out to be the wrong size or colour. There ought to be a standard kit of spare parts including obsolete/compatible parts for earlier installations that can be carried round in the van just in case.

    What depot was it fitted from? You can email me on anglian@blueyonder.co.uk with details, job number etc and I’ll try to find out what’s going on.

    I can’t understand how the above poster’s reply was addressed to the wrong person. That’s just bizarre unless, of course, it was addressed to the first-named person on the original contract.

    Who was it addressed to then, out of interest?

  345. Mark

    SW LAR: Sorry, I don’t know which depot. I live in Luton, if that helps. Thanks for your offer to help, but I don’t have a job number or anything.

    Funnily enough, I bumped into a salesgirl in Homebase today. She asked if I was interested in any windows or doors. I declined, but offered her my sorry tale. She took my details and has promised to try and chase it up for me. I’ll give it a few days and if I’ve heard nothing by the end of the week I’ll try writing to the head office – many thanks for that address, Alex.

  346. alex

    hi sw london rep
    the letter heading was addressed to us: mr and mrs norton, but then it said Dear mr and mrs Lowe!
    My complaint has been forwarded to the national co ordination office service dept, and was signed by Barry Chilvers deputy director of customer services.
    cant say that this fills me with any hope. Tempted to send a copy of the letter back to Barry for his information.

  347. Phil

    Had a really pleasant experience with Anglian today. Have just re mortgaged and budgeted £3000 to have 10 windows replaced. Have a local independent guy recommended by a friend coming round Thursday night to give me a quote. Was prepared only to have 7 windows done if I couldn’t afford all 10 (have 3 cheap UPVC ones already)

    Today I received a knock on the door from a guy representing Anglian windows. I told him I would be interested in a quote but only if they don’t do what Zenith did a few years ago (the predictable phone the boss numerous times and keep dropping the price).

    The Anglian boss phoned me up to confirm the appointment and again I said that I had another guy booked for Thursday evening and I didn’t want someone to give me a load of crap, just give me their best price. He said no problem.

    The rep turned up at around 5:30, very clean and polite. I told him at the outset of my experience with Zenith and that I simply wanted the best price, else he would be wasting his time.

    He asked about my budget and said I didn’t have to tell him ( I wouldn’t anyway) and also said could he guess what Zenith had quoted a couple of years ago. He got the zenith quote within £300 of what they originally quoted and what they ended up quoting after numerous phone calls, but again I didn’t let on how correct he was.

    He warned me that sometimes companies give a low quote, then the surveyor insists x,y,z is done, pushing the price up.

    He asked how I was going to fund it and I said I had just re mortgaged. He was happy with that and didn’t even try to sell me finance.

    He measured up, asked how many openings I wanted then did a few calculations. 10 windows, 8 of them two panes with one of them opening, the other 2 single opening panes.

    He said that the best price he could do without any of the usual crap would be £3090. He guaranteed that this price would include toughened glass where needed and fire hinges where needed etc.

    He said the only time a further cost could incur would be in the unlikely case the surveyor said a lintel is needed anywhere, but he also agreed that if this was the case, I could do the lintel myself leaving the price exactly the same.

    I was extremely happy with that price, he was honest with me from the outset, he told me that in theory the quotable RRP would be around the 9500 mark but was a meaningless figure.

    I explained I had a guy coming round on Thursday, he was more than happy with that. I know that windows like Anglian or Zenith are much better quality compared to ones the average local guy would fit and I was honest with him. I said that providing the local gut didn’t offer me 10 windows of exceptional quality under £2500, I would give him the deposit on Friday.

    He said he was so confident their windows would be vastly superior to what a independent local guy can offer (which I suspect is a very true statement), he asked if it would be OK to complete all the paperwork now, me sign but him collect the deposit on Friday if I still wanted to go ahead. I was more than happy. No deposit paid today, 7 days to cancel and can compare how the local guy does.

    I thanked him and said to him that had he acted like Zenith with the numerous calls to the boss etc, there’s no way on this planet he would have got my business, but as it was, providing everything else goes smoothly and the independent guy cant do a LOT better, I would be recommending him.

    Only £90 over what I budgeted for, A total of around 1.5hrs including all paperwork, me choosing handles, frosted glass etc and both of us happy.

    I’m in Gt Yarmouth so I presume it’s the Norwich office. Very very happy.

  348. SW London Anglian Rep

    Why didn’t you at least ask him to explain the finance? You get 10% off the price and, in your position, you have the cash to pay it off immediately, thus keeping the discount less the admin fee and possibly a months interest. You could even pay a bit extra for loan insurance and reclaim all of it once you’ve paid it off (within 30 days) and be covered effectively for free between now and installation time just in case the unthinkable happened.

    Never really understand why people trust a reputable company to quote for their main product but then won’t even consider their carefully chosen finance product.

    Not too late for yourself if you ask the rep to do a variation of contract.

    You can also ask for the Anglian Financial Services guy to call and see if you really have got the best mortgage deal going. Doesn’t cost you anything to find out.

  349. Phil

    “Never really understand why people trust a reputable company to quote for their main product but then won’t even consider their carefully chosen finance product.”

    If I want Windows I go to someone that specialises in windows

    Personally if I want finance, I go to someone who specialises in finance which would be an independent financial advisor with access to a huge range of companies. I wouldn’t even consider a bank for such things.

    Looking at the Anglian magazine, it mentions a £75 acceptance fee and also says finance is through GE Capital. That’s two reasons I wouldn’t be interested under any circumstances :)

    I’ve already got the money, I wanted a quote on windows, not finance. As simple as that really.

  350. SW London Anglian Rep

    That kind of thinking sort of illustrates my point. I’ve just taken the trouble (at no gain to myself, I might add) that there’s a discount for using the finance which you wouldn’t get if you financed it through another lender.I’ve also mentioned the admin fee so you know what there would be a small cost involved if you paid it off early with the cash you say you have. Yet, instead of saying “thanks – I might look into that when the rep comes round if I can possibly save a couple of hundred quid”, what you’ve actually said is that you wouldn’t even consider it.

    It just seems like an emotional response rather than a logical one and is one that I encounter a surprising number of times. On a larger deal it can cost the customer over £500 not to use the finance, which I find bizarre.

    And as for our Anglian Financial Services specialists, it stands to reason that they also have access to a “huge range of companies”. Lenders are normally keen enough to do business with our rather sizable customer base that they will usually offer pretty good deals, too.

  351. David P

    Can someone explain how Anglian (and Everest do the same) claim to be offering the best possible deal for cash, but are then able to undercut it if you choose finance – when at least some of the amount you pay must be going to the finance company? It just doesn’t make sense, does it?
    Also, if you take the finance option when do Anglian get the money – when they’ve completed a first pass installation to their satisfaction, or when they’ve finished the work to the customer’s satisfaction (in my case after the fourth visit and more than 3 months after the job should have been completed)?

  352. Phil

    It’s not that I don’t appreciate that you’ve taken the time to tell me this, it’s just that you don’t know my personal circumstances and talking about finance in my position would be pointless.

    While I’m getting better and can hopefully return to work next year, I have been unable to work due to health reasons for the last 7 years. My wife does work, but due to my salary going from around £42000 per year to £85 per week (and with two kids that are growing up fast), we got into a little difficulty with some of our debts.

    3 years ago we took the decision to re mortgage and wipe the debts off. Due to my financial situation (defaults and a lot of debts with collection agencies) and my health, we could re mortgage but it was at a very high interest rate (was 14% when we paid it off last week).

    We went with it as
    a) we wanted to clear our debts rather than pay them off indefinitely at £1 a week each with creditors constantly chasing us

    b) My wifes financial situation was at the point where we could easily afford to do so.

    Our plan worked exactly as we had hoped. We paid all our debts off and paid the mortgage for 3 years without missing or being late with any payments.

    Now we were in a situation where we could investigate a new mortgage with a much better credit history. Spoke to an independent advisor and as we had stuck to our payments without any problems, he was able to get us a re mortgage over the same period of time as our existing mortgage (so it’s still paid off in 13 years time), at a fixed rate of 5.29% for two years.

    Certain parts of our property are badly in need of some work. 7 windows are so rotten they’re falling to bits, plus there’s a lot of other essential work that needs to be done.

    Our re mortgage has allowed us to do all of this and our payments are virtually the same.

    I’ve explained all this here, to show you where my thinking comes from. I don’t really want to have to explain all this to a salesperson who I simply want a quote for windows from. I still have the defaults on my file, they remain there for something like 5 – 7 years (cant remember exactly). The chances are, GE Capital (or whatever they’re called nowadays, GE Money) would take one look at my history, see my defaults, note that 5 years ago they passed 2 of their store cards over to collection agencies (now all paid off), and would refuse the loan application. They would also see that we only received a new mortgage last week (with no payment history), that I’m not working etc. There would also be a credit search added to my file.

    The hassle all that would involve is simply not worth it to me. My health situation has been enough stress as it is.

    That’s why I might seem like I’m being ungrateful. I don’t mean to be and I do appreciate you weren’t to know and were only trying to save me money.

    best

    Phil

  353. SW London Anglian Rep

    David

    Are you suggesting that people paying using our finance (and therefore already expecting to pay interest) should also be penalised by paying a premium over the cash price? You probably don’t think that but logically that is what people are saying when they expect a “discount for cash”.

    But why do people think a “cash” price should be cheaper? You don’t actually pay cash under the counter to a dodgy market trader, what you do is ask a company to incur the cost of commission, survey, manufacture and installation of it’s high ticket-priced product in advance of the bulk of the payment, which is usually by cheque, goes into the accounts and often not all of it is going to be fully recovered from every single customer anyway, at least not without a fair amount of legal expense and hassle.

    On the other hand a finance company expects to make (on average) a profit from customers’ inability to pay quickly so is more than happy to pay an introductory commission to companies such as ourselves. We can then take this as an alternative source of profit and therefore sell the product at a lower price. All it takes is a signature at the satisfactory completion of the installation and, hey presto, we have been paid. No bouncing cheques or payments “lost in the post”.

    Why can people not see that the combination of those two considerations should naturally lead to a lower price for products bought with some kind of in-house arranged finance.

    To answer your last point, David, Anglian don’t get paid on windows etc until the customer signs off the finance “satisfaction” note. In the case of a Conservatory I think you normally pay in stages don’t you?

    Phil

    Sorry to hear about your situation and I’m glad that you’ve sorted it to a point where there is light at the end of the tunnel.

    It’s probably only fair to make you aware that Anglian (and other Window companies) do also perform a rudimentary credit check on customers. This may just mean they come back and ask for a larger deposit, or ask for some arrangement to pay on the day of installation, or you may have no problems whatsoever. It’s an operations issue rather than a sales issue so I doubt if your rep would know either.

    Good luck anyway.

  354. David P

    Thanks for the quick response. No, I wasn’t suggesting that a customer should pay a penalty on top of interest/financing charges. I’m not even suggesting that there should be a “discount for cash”. I just think that there should be a price for the windows (or conservatory etc) and a price for the finance.
    My bafflement is that by going down the financing route it’s possible for the customer to get the product at a lower overall cost than by paying cash. In my case the Anglian rep didn’t try to sell finance so the question didn’t arise, but the Everest rep did, and spelled out exactly when I should cancel the finance agreement in order to end up paying significantly less for the windows. I can see why the selling company would be prepared to ease the cost of a genuine finance agreement by rebating some of their commission, but this tortuous pseudo-finance approach just doesn’t seem to make sense to me.
    On the point of prompt and complete payment by customers isn’t the answer to ensure prompt and complete execution of the work? In my case I would have been happy to have paid over the complete amount in January if the job had been completed properly then. I didn’t want the work to drag on until May!

  355. Phil

    SW London Anglian Rep

    Thanks for the warning. It’s no probs if they need a bigger deposit as I have the funds sitting in the bank. As long as they don’t want all of it before I have seen the work completed satisfactory I’m happy.

  356. SW London Anglian Rep

    Most businesses go bust because of poor cash-flow usually due to slow-paying customers. I’m sure you are not naive enough to think that ALL of our satisfied customers pay up immediately.

    Not all our customers have funds in place by the time Anglian have completed a job, even if they had the money available when they originally placed the order. We sometimes take orders up to six months in advance, e.g where an extension is being built (and where final costs can easily go over budget). Therefore Anglian have to allow for a certain proportion of non-payers in their gross margins (i.e. in the price). They also get paid a commission by the lender, which can be used as a substitute source of profit. Clearly then a customer that has a method of payment already in place arranged and approved by Anglian’s chosen finance partner, and who only needs to sign a form while the fitters are there in the house, is vastly preferable to a customer that hands over a cheque which could then bounce due to insufficient funds or be deliberately cancelled.

    Your real question should now be “why would a finance company subsidise the price if the customer is just going to pay it off”.

    Simple answer is that most people proudly boast that, even though we might have randomly knocked on their door only two days previously, they somehow already have sufficient spare cash lying around to buy a whole house-full of windows. In reality they would usually have borrowed it from somewhere else or had to close out some long-term investment plan. Inertia dictates that once people take the finance they don’t actually pay it off anything like as quickly as they said they were going to.

    Finance houses know this and statistically know how much profit they will make on average.

    You might as well ask why an insurance company will pay for the cost of a whole car in exchange for only a modest premium, even if you stated at the time of taking the policy that you you were worried you might crash.

    Salesmen work on commission as you well know, so you can assume a rep showing you how to pay the finance off early to save money is not just doing you a favour out of pure altruism but more in the hope that, as well as facilitating getting the deal in the first place, he will also make an additional commission on all the customers that actually end up NOT paying it off early.

  357. David P

    OK, understood. Thanks.

  358. SW London Anglian Rep

    Curious what you mean when you say that you think their should be a price for the windows and a (different?) price for finance.

    Is there a clearer, easier-to-understand way of marketing this finance that people can suggest please.

    One price for cash payment and a discounted price when using our finance seems to confuse people. Even though the discount is sufficient to cover, say, a year’s interest most people turn round and say they don’t want to pay interest and simply do not pick up on the fact that I’ve just said there is a discount. In five years I have never been asked, for instance, “how many months interest does that discount pay for”.

    So my thoughts are should we offer the same price for cash as for finance and simply offer a cash back feature once the windows had been installed? Or possibly give the payment back some months after installation if the loan was still running.

    Alternatively, would it be easier for customers to grasp if we said it was the same price as cash but interest-free for the first year, with interest charged after that time, yet still retaining all the flexibility of allowing lump-sum payments?

    Please all feel free to comment.

  359. David P

    I mean a separate price for finance (i.e. the interest charges etc that go to the finance company). Being old fashioned I prefer to save up first and then buy things. So I tend to see this as two separate items – purchase of windows (or washing machine or whatever) and, if I wanted it, the additional service of a loan to pay for it. If I did want the additional service I would expect to pay for it (interest charges in one form or another). If I don’t want the additional service I don’t want to be (apparently at least) penalised for not taking it.
    Thinking about the washing machine analogy: if you go into Comet the price of the washing machine is the price on the ticket, regardless of whether you pay cash, credit card, or take their finance terms. However, if you do take their finance terms they may give you the benefit of, for example, an interest free period. But you don’t get a reduced price on the washing machine.
    Of course in the windows or conservatory case I can see that there might be a preference on the part of the company for a finance payment to reduce the risk of not receiving timely full payment and hence a reason for providing a cash inducement up front to choose finance – but I still think the answer to that really lies in first class delivery, first time.

  360. SW London Anglian Rep

    First class delivery first time does not, unfortunately, guarantee ptompt payment. The reverse is, curiously, also true.

    As regards a separate price for finance, i.e, taking account of interest charges etc, well no-one knows what that would be ubtin it’s finally paid off.

    If you buy something on a credit card you just pay the ticket price and any interest is your own affair. With some storecards you are offered a discount on your first purchase for simply opening the account (see any parallels there?) but again the interest is your own affair.

    Funnily enough the washing machine example with the interest free period will still involve an APR, if you read the small-print. What happens is the supply company effectively sell the item at a cheaper price but the finance company add the interest upfront and divide the total loan amount over one to three years and call it “interest free”. In this example you could indeed expect to be able to haggle for a “discount for cash” by paying up front, but you would not be paying less than the “base” finance price you would simply be avoiding paying most of the interest which has been front-loaded onto the price.

  361. meee

    ok reading through all these things, and i think everyone here has a fair point. i used to work for zenith, back when i was in uni, as a bit of extra cash. the telesales is all scripted, and the turnover of staff is high. didnt have much dealings with the field sales people, but what i do know, is that they are not salesmen. i am a professional salesman, who meets requirements to products, who is not pushy, as i work for a professional company, who deal with other business’. There is, however, one thing that rings true through my head, this can apply to staybright, kitchens direct, dolphin bathrooms, all those high street home improvement stores, that feature regularly on watchdog etc.

    You do, actually, get what you pay for.

    Remember, the guy sitting in front of you, for hours at a time, gets his commission. His basic rate is less than McDonalds, so of course he is going to sit there for hours on end. Always make sure you read the contacts, dont be under the illusion that the money you pay for the product, and the money you pay for SUPPORT are the same thing. You have 2 different contracts. The first is to supply you with goods. The second is to supply you help if the goods to faulty. If you with-hold payment for the goods, then the support is void, and you are eligable to get taken to court as YOU broke the contract. This is something consumers should be very aware of. I have seen it happen a lot, we have all sat there, and had the telesales guy ring at 7pm while im watching corrie. He is, after all, may a student doing his job, and i cant blame him, but its the field guys you want to worry about.

  362. SW London Anglian Rep

    Not sure what you’re getting at whebn you say us field guys are “not salesmen”. I have to convince people that were perhaps only half-interested and maybe only wanted an idea of price to actually commit to having major cosmetic work done on their house and also to pay a premium price for a quality job and not go hunting around for the cheapest run-of-the-mill products and dubious guarantees that most other companies offer. I also have to leave the customer feeling comfortable with their decision so that they don’t cancel within their statutory seven-day cooling-off period. That’s salesmanship by most definitions.

    Actually a commission-only salesman will not spend hours and hours with a customer unless he’s stupid, has no other leads in the pipeline, has no life outside of his job, or, most likely, if the customer gives him either real or (quite often) false buying signals.

    I take your point about the contract being a combination of product AND guarantee but I’m not sure why you think that’s unreasonable. If a customer witholds partial payment until a job is completed then that’s fair enough, but we often get customers trying to get away with not paying anything because of some slight defect in a pane of glass or because they expected to have the whole of the inside of their house replastered.

    Anyway, like I’ve said many times on here, why invite a commission-based salesperson to your home if you’re not interested in buying the product and then complain when he asks you for the order? You can get prices easily enough by taking a tape measure around your house and drawing the the windows yourself and bringing them to a showroom.

  363. Mark

    Following my post on June 4th:

    Of course, I heard nothing back from Anglian, following the salesgirl’s promise to sort it, and so on Monday this week I wrote to Alex McNutt at Anglian’s head office.

    I have today received a reply from the Deputy Director of Customer Services, apologising and promising an investigation into my complaint.

    I think they are missing the point of my letter: I don’t want an investigation, I want two cabin hooks!

    Still, it’s a start.

  364. Mark

    Well, I’ve just returned from a short holiday and in the pile of post awaiting me, was a small package from Anglian. Upon opening it, I was greeted with the sight of a 12-inch, gold-coloured cabin hook (OK, I’d asked for two, just in case it was a substantially different colour from my existing one, but it isn’t and so I’m happy to settle for just the one).

    The package was postmarked Dunstable (5 miles up the road from me). If I’d known they had a depot there, I’d have gone and banged on the door ages ago.

    Anyway, it’s taken about a year, numerous phone calls, and finally a letter to the CEO, but I’ve now got my cabin hook fitted to my door (it took me about 2 mins to fit it) and so I can return to being a happy Anglian Customer again.

    Spookily, on the day I returned from holiday, about ten minutes after opening my package from Anglian, there was a knock at the door. It was an Anglian door-to-door salesman. So I took the opportunity to regale my tale of woe one last time!

  365. Pat

    I am very disappointed with my Anglian front oor and the service I have received.I chose a georgeous burgundy upvc door only to find it is a white door painted. This has been touched up in the past but now the paint has broken down and washes off leaving a yellowy finish beneath.I was told someone would paint it on June 25th but on that day when I rang to say noone had arrived I was told that they had run out of paint. I am not a happy bunny

  366. Mr Kakar

    I ordered 3 doors from Anglian. 2 out of 3 doors supplied were sub-standard and not fit for purpose. After calling and writing to the company for 6 months and not getting any response in a professional manner as one would expect from a brand name, I’ve decided to take legal option through small claims court. I wonder if others had a similar experience with them. Thanks.

  367. CAMBRIDGE ANGLIAN REP

    S.W ANGLIAN is spot on with every comment. Ive worked 1 year zenith,6 months everist, 4 years anglian.they are ALL commision ONLY based. The only way a rep can stay in the industry is to earn commission on a given % of deals.Our job is to secure orders for our company, and to help customers from the (many) pitfalls of dealing with lesser companies. An experienced sales person can offer a customer SO much in terms of genuine advice/design, this he is doing totally free of charge until an order is placed. If orders dont come he/she leaves on financial grounds. THEY THEN GO & WORK FOR A SMALL/LOCAL COMPANY WHERE THEY SELL ON PRICE NOT QUALITY!! then a new batch of un-knowledgable sales staff is recruited to fill the void, I worked for my first company in amazement as 3/4 reps per week were introduced to our branch only to dissapear 3/4 weeks later. If you are making an appointment specifically ask for a very experienced rep, be pepared to give them time to help you with imformation, be prepared to do a deal with them . If you dont Bullshit them they wont bullshit you!! Other quotes ? get`em first( make sure they leave their best price!) deal with a National & get gurantees. How do you know an experienced professional?? They ask open questions to find your needs, wont bore you with a full presenter, or phone the manager, they listen more than talk, If the price is right, the product suits PLACE THE ORDER THERE AND THEN!!! They`ll deserve and expect it!!

  368. Don

    Most people here agree that Anglian’s product is fine, and personally I had absolutely no problem with their fitters.

    However their after sales service is appalling!

    I originally called with a request for a repair under the manufacturer’s warranty back in February. Since then Anglian have failed to turn up for 2 seperate appointments.

    I have called them eight times and on each occasion they have promised to get back to me – not once have I received a call.

    I have written to Alex McNutt on four occasions now and each time he has delegated a reply to Barry Chilvers – Deputy Director of Customer Services.

    If Barry’s staff are incompetent he obviously leads them by example. He sends broadly the same letter (and even manages to address it to the right person sometimes)… and promises that he will ask his team to keep him personally informed of developments.

    Strangely enough, if you ever get to talk to this guy he knows absolutely nothing about your personal incident and cannot get off the phone quickly enough – his promise to get back within 15 minutes is about as much value as the other promises he makes.

    Clearly neither McNutt nor Chilvers ever bother to read their mail – if so they might have reacted to my last letter which told them categorically that they are in Breach of Contract.

    Needless to say they didn’t respond so I have had the work done by a reputable contractor and have billed Anglian with those costs plus the cost of my time trying to get them to comply with their obligations.

    They have until close of play tomorrow to pay my full invoice or I am gonna hit them through the small claims court – and believe me, I won’t hesitate!

    I am not sure if my seven months wait is just gross incompetence or a deliberate tactic to reduce their warranty costs but whatever, the buck stops with Alex McNutt. He is either totally unaware of the situation (doubtful) or he fully condones it. Either way his arrogance in ignoring his Customer base is unbelievable!!

    Oh, and a message to all those Anglian Reps who try and defend their employer’s shortcomings – please don’t bother trying to change my opinions – your Company’s appalling aftersales service is indefensible and will eventually undermine your ability to make future sales.

    A message to all other victims of Anglian aftersales service – don’t be put off, if they don’t comply with their warranty terms. Use the courts. You can reclaim your costs, and eventually the message will get through that it is cheaper to do the job right rather than spending time and money trying to avoid their obligations.

  369. SW London Anglian Rep

    Don

    You give no details of the nature of the repair or the time of your installation. Is it windows?
    If it’s within six months of the original installation then it will be sorted out by the original fitting department, not the service department.

    What part of the country are you in and which depot was it? Have you involved your rep or local sales office?
    Did you give Anglian written notice that you intended to employ somebody else to do the repairs and a reasonable date by which to respond?

    You can email me on Anglian@blueyonder.co.uk with a job reference number if you like and I’ll see if I can find out anything.

    I keep an eye on this forum and have suggested complainers contact me for help as a company insider instead of just bad-mouthing us on here, yet so far no-one has taken me up on the offer, which I find somewhat strange.

  370. Don

    SW Anglian Rep

    Thanks for your reply. I originally thought you wanted to handle this personally but seeing that you have posted your reply for all to see, it is only right they share my response as well.

    …………………………………..

    Thanks for intercepting my notice board publication…..all of the details you request are outlined in my posting.

    The conservatory was installed some years ago but is still covered by the manufacturer’s warranty. The fault was a ‘blown’ sealed glass unit and I have been trying to get it fixed for 7 months. As I outlined….2 appointments missed, 8 documented phone calls ignored, four letters to Alex McNutt delegated to Barry Chilvers. That guy is a liability…..he even has trouble getting the addressee right and sends almost the same reply each time and is obviously blowing smoke.

    Yes I did speak to my local office but they referred me to Norwich.

    Yes, McNutt has had formal notice of Breach of Contract and was given a reasonable time limit to instigate repairs…that too has been ignored so I have had the repairs done and have invoiced for that and my costs as advised in my second and third letters.

    I suggest you get hold of the file from Norwich and look at my contemporaneous notes and the correspondence – all of which were sent a total of four times by recorded delivery – there is no way they can claim non-receipt)

    As I have already posted – in my opinion Anglian are either totally incompetent or are deliberately employing a tactic of reducing their maintenance costs by sysematically ignoring warranty claims in the hope that a number of them will just fade away. In either case your MD must be aware of the situation and in failing to react I could forgiven for concluding he is guilty of conspiracy – at best he is ultimately responsible for your company failing in its duty of care to its Customers.

    Mine is not an isolated incident. So far I have identified 31 similar cases within my own network. I would love to see the response to a BBC Watchdog enquiry….now there is a good idea.

    On a personal note – your efforts to defend Anglian are laudable although this board tends to be a place of last resort. By the time people get here they are already angry and frustrated – and although you may feel they are bad-mouthing you surely must agree that if the Company was doing its job right, aggrieved Customers would not have to resort to such measures.

    Over the last seven months my confidence in Anglian’s ability to get the job done has reached rock bottom. I am certain they will not pay my bill by the deadline of close of play today so I have already completed the small claims court documentation and will serve those papers if nothing is received in the post on Tuesday morning. Even at this late stage the Court will see that I am being more than tolerant.

  371. Bikefast

    We have had a visit by the local Anglian Rep and have endured the usual treatment about which we have read on this page with the various offers and discounts. I think it was “Basher” who kindly gave the advice that the price should be around £450 per window. Can he or anyone comment please does this refer to one “hole” in the house wall or else if that “hole” is divided into a top opening and bottom part fixed, is that two windows. In other words is the £450 window referring to each sealed glass unit ? Thank you.

  372. SW London Anglian Rep

    A window is a flat hole in the wall except that the number of windows in a “bay window” is the number of flat sections that are fixed to each other between bay poles so a bay could be as many as six or seven separate windows.

    The price of a window depends on its size and the number of fixed panes and openings.

    If all you want to base your buying decision on is price then draw your windows and measure them and go to one of the many showrooms that most window companies have dotted around high streets up and down the country.

    Why invite a salesperson into your home and then complain when they try to sell you something? That’s what they’re paid to do. It’s not as if customers are prepared to pay for advice by the hour.

  373. Bikefast

    Thank you SW Anglian Rep. I don’t think that I have complained, I have only stated a fact. I have had two estimates to do the same job and they are poles apart. The higher of the two “starting” figures is more that twice the amount of the lower and that is why I was trying to determine which one could be taken to be nearer to the basic of £x per window. I have no idea how their quality of work might compare and the fact that they are both National companies makes it very difficult to understand as to why there should be such a huge difference for the same installation. The so-called bottom prices are almost £4000 apart. I agree that the cheapest is not always the one to choose but why the excessive difference I wonder.

  374. Tokat

    Well i’m back again and good news we have won our court case against Anglian!!!!!!!!

    If you want to know full details well sorry but you have to go back to tactics part 1 post number 134 ( i think ).

    But in short nov 2003 we got conny, windows, doors, roofline produsts and roof cleaned.Work finished march 2004 with too many probs to mention. They wanted paid we wanted probs fixed first. Heard nothing more until 2 weeks before xmas 2004 when we got a court order. Conclusion?? we won dont have to pay are getting all probs fixed and conservatory is getting rebuilt as it didnt even have any founds!!!!!!! Plus they have all court costs etc to pay. Great !!! but annoying thing they admitted ( in front of solicitor not on record)they knew all along they wouldnt win but strung it out hoping we would give in or run out of money ( bit silly as we were on no win no fee )!!!!!!

    tokat

  375. Andrew Colman

    I also think Bikefast was making a legitimate point, but whenever anyone does, certain regular contributors try to belittle them with very familiar put-downs.

    Wonderful news about Tokat winning a case agains Anglian! It’s a hard thing to do, because it involves playing David to Anglian’s Goliath. But just once in a while, it happens.

    Andrew Colman

  376. Anglian nottingham guy

    Hi there ladies and gentleman not been on here in a good while been v.busy. Just reading up on some recent comments about Anglian and out of no disrespect to some of you i feel some comments are probably taken out of proportion. i take one day off a week to call in on installations taking place and in the years ive never had one disatisfied costumer and thats out of 800 orders. i fully admit that all the jobs havnt gone 100% perfect because in this world nobody is perfect and anglian employ humans and mistakes do happen but when all the work is completed every1 of my clients has been happy. ive even taken 20 orders off this website which meant me travelling alot of miles once a job had been completed just to make sure everyhtings ok. my advice to anybody buying anything from any company do not complete payment until the work is completed to the standard you have ordered.
    I also agree with my collegue from sw london on all the issues he has raised. the problems with our reputation is salespeople as he has mentioned take too long at times and present silly prices from other companys so instantly we have our work cut out. depending on what work needs doing to the prospects home determines the time of the appointment because design plays a big part n any investment so getting designs perfect first time is very important.
    ill be happy to answer any quiries or give any advice to any of you just ask, regards nottingham rep

  377. Martiong

    Anglian windows have turned up twice to fit my windows and have not been able to complete the work as per their promises. This has resulted in massive inconvenience to me, including wife and babies being moved out for the week, the whole house being packed up to facilitate the installation and holidays taken from work. Anglians initial solution was to part install the windows and then return to disrupt everything again in a couple of weeks. They also wanted payment for work carried out which I refused to consent to (on the premise that once they have the majority of my money they will be even less interested in the problems that they are causing me). Now after speaking to the installation manager, they are prepared to wait until the work is completed before being paid and have offered £100 for our troubles(which has probably been spent on petrol when uprooting the family!!). This still leaves us having to up root again and confirm another installation date and new survey(as some of the windows have been designed incorrectly). Only after turning the installers away have I got to speak to a manager. He initially refused to do anything but reschedule a fitting which did nothing to account for the inconvenience. I am absolutely furious and want to cancel the order and get my deposit back. I am confident that I am within my rights, but would appreciate other peoples experience/point of view on this matter.

    Thanks…..

  378. Tim

    erm, why do you have to move out for the week?

    And problems happen, learn to live with it.

    I have no axe to grind for Anglian, quite the opposite, but your post has smacks of “Hellooooo! Drama Queen!” about it.
    Your problems are minor compared to some.

    TJ

  379. SW London Anglian Rep

    So your complaint seems to be that you’d like the windows to have been made exactly right first time and installed in the minimum time possible, otherwise you think Anglian are at major fault. Well, in the real world things don’t go perfectly every single time, unfortunately.

    But at this late stage you have no chance of “cancelling” and getting your deposit back, nor any justification for doing so. Anglian, however, have an obligation to supply suitable windows and will endeavour to do so in a “reasonable” time.

    A total of a few days of fitting time is perfectly reasonable. Fitting part of the job is a sensible solution if some of the components do not fit properly, or have been made incorrectly, as happens occasionally, but you could insist on a full install if you really need to – a four-day job can clearly be done as two sets of two. Accepting a partial install would normally result in a request for a partial payment, but that’s a grey area and discretion is often used.

    “Uprooting” your family and moving your furniture around is entirely your own choice, as is taking time off work, or do you think a window company should put you up in a hotel and pay you your daily rate in lieu of time taken off?

    All that Anglian’s fitters require is clear access to the windows and somebody there to sign the job off as complete and, yes, there will be a bit of noise. What else did you expect?
    No-one forced you to buy windows with two(?) young babies.

    To the poster that refers to “belittling with familiar put-downs”
    is it surprising, given some of the totally unreasonable complaints that people come up with just to have a dig?

    This whole thread seems to be based on the premise that Anglian ought to operate as some kind of philanthropic charity that never makes a single mistake. The reality is that they are a high-quality window company with an excellent product and worthwhile guarantees – which means that they are normally more expensive so they use salespeople to help persuade customers to spend more on a better product instead of just basing the decision on price, coupled with some misguided sense that, just because a shop-front exists in the High Street, that the small company concerned has been the same legal trading entity ever since time began and that the frames they offer are any more than just one of many bog-standard generic suppliers’ products, coupled with unbranded (mere) five-year-guaranteed sealed units bought in from yet another supplier and designed not to last too long so that more business is generated in the future.

    I mention again that, so far, everyone I’ve offered to help on here has consistently failed to give the required reference details for me to be able to investigate and help in any way. Which causes me to question the authenticity of at least a few of the more general grievances on here.

    I also note that no-one with a complaint seems to mention having tried to gain any help from their original sales rep or local sales office.

    Here’s a typical example of the kind of call I get from certain kinds of customer. I had one that rang me this morning complaining that their French doors were the wrong way round and that they were obstructed by the TV. They also complained that the fitters, having completed the job, expected to be paid a cheque there and then rather than have one sent in the post. We would soon be out of business if we didn’t collect immediate payment and I had made it very clear at the time of ordering that payment was expected on satisfactory completion of the job.

    As it turned out, the French doors had been made correctly exactly as per the customer’s original preference, which I had clearly established at the time, but they had since re-arranged their living room, or bought a bigger TV or something. Hence Anglian were not actually at fault at all.

    As a gesture, Anglian agreed (for a very modest fee), to dismantle part of the doors and reconfigure them with the reverse opening mechanism. For the sake of under a couple of hundred quid on a seven grand order the customer declined the offer.

  380. Anglian nottingham guy

    hey i agree with what youre saying sw rep, what region are you from?

  381. Mike Marvell

    I left Anglian in 1986 . to date I have worked for no less than 8 diferent double glazing companies!!!
    Today i am returning to Anglian as I know they are without doubt the best company in the UK. I shall not leave them again.
    They are not perfect…but please believe me when i say they are more perfect than most.
    It always saddens me to hear of jobs not going well, and its always of those that people will shout the loudest.
    As regards sales techniques…well i believe strongly that things have changed very little since i first started in sales…customers love a good deal..but if you loose credebility then you loose a sale.
    The price drop is a powerful and beautiful close with the right prospect, but it is only one of a dozen closes a professional salesman will employ.
    The great problem is that many salesmen are not taught how to execute closes with finesse!

    A good salesman has belief in his product AND certainty that what he is saying is true…(if this belief is taken away then he should move on)By persuading the prospect to become a customer the salesman should be delighted that his new “Friend” has made the right decision…..I will expect all the new friends I make over the coming years to keep in touch with me, If they have a problem it becomes my problem too, after all i need their recommendations to generate business.
    Forty years, over a million customers…that is quite remarkable when you consider the average life expectancy of a company in double glazing is 5 years!!

  382. SW London Anglian Rep

    Nottingham guy – email me on anglian@blueyonder.co.uk. I’d be interested in comparing marketing and operations procedures, lead registration, etc.

    Regarding sales techniques and drop-closes, special offers etc:-

    It amazes me when customers withhold the fact that they’ve already had other quotes, including from a comparable competitor, presumably in the misguided hope that the salesman might just happen to quote a lower starting figure than the others, but then they insist the salesman gives them a straightforward price with no fancy offers etc and no “must sign today” deals.

    So I did exactly that the other day and the customer asked if that was the lowest price I could do, to which I asked “is Anglian your preferred choice, then?” followed by “when were you actually thinking of having them done?”

    As it turned out he’d withheld the fact that he’d had a visit from Zenith the day before who had quoted a lower price. After a heated discussion about why salespeople do not voluntarily do their job for free and how he could have saved us both an hour of our lives by simply saying “Zenith quoted this, can you do better?” I got him to agree to the terms of our ShowHome scheme in exchange for a further discount and left with the order.

    Regarding the life-span of other companies being typically less than five years:-

    I am appalled at the number of customers that say they are comparing a company like ourselves with a local reseller recommended by a friend when the friend only had their windows done a few months previously. As if you can tell how long windows will last by looking at them or by whether the fitters were polite and friendly.

    A new window company will order the window frames from a third party manufacturer or will simply buy in pvc frames and put them together in the back of the shop. They will normally order the (often unbranded) sealed units separately.

    After year one they may have a back-log of only one or two complaints which they can afford to fix from the profits of newer orders. After another year or two the complaints are building up and after you get to about four or five years the cost of fixing complaints exceeds the new profits being made so the company is no-longer viable. Typically these companies close down and may re-open a new closely-named business, even operating from the same premises, but with every legal right not to honour guarantees from the earlier company. They may cherry-pick, of course, honouring a few guarantees from customers they think will give them more business, but the typical customer will get fobbed off instead.

    It’s worth mentioning as well that when smaller companies offer a “ten-year insurance backed guarantee” the small, unheard of insurance company will normally discontinue cover when the company stops paying the premium and, in any case, would only pay-out the deemed value of the windows now, not the replacement cost based on how much they were when they were installed.

    Also, the sealed units supplied to the windows industry generally only come with a five-year guarantee in the first place, so if any ten-year guarantee is offered it is often done so with “a wing and a prayer”.

  383. Mike Marvell

    I completely agree with your comments SW London,
    My forray into the world of small companies was quite an eye opener.
    Some were experts at trading with false books, defrauding the vat and tax man, having the limited company in 3 rd party names and changing their names at the eleventh hour. The last one actually operated as two seemingly seperate companies…so if no sale from the first….in went the second pre armed with all the info.
    Insurance backed guarantees that had small print rendering them useless if the company stopped trading but didnt go bust (as most do) small print exclusions for hardware guarantee at only 12 months.
    But as you so rightly say the biggest reason for collapse was non payment of final balances due to poor workmanship and mounting court cases for dishonoured guarantee.
    The first sign being the managements desire for larger deposits, special deals (vat free) for full cash upfront and finally management sweeps at below cost simply to get cash flow for the new company that was phoenix like about to emerge.
    So my message for all would be bargain hunters out there…you buy cheap you will definately buy twice.

  384. Martiong

    I appreciated and understand the my issues are not that significant, compared to some. However, I should probably highlight that my only request of Anglian on the day was to not take any payment for part completion of the job and arrange some sort of recompense for the amount of time and hassle that was being caused(this was more out of frustration rather than anything else)

    As it stands, I was told either pay for the work done and then wait for the rest of the windows to be remade and fitted (at anglians discretion!)or unpack everything in the house and arrange for yet another complete installation date to be arranged

    Having lost the opportunity to part complete the job whilst everything was packed up and the family away, I was then offered the option of paying fully upon completion and £100. The right solution, but offered too late to be of any use.

    By the way, it was on the reccomendation of the Sales rep (and reconfirmed by the first installation teams) that moving the wife and kids out would be wise due to the mess that would be caused.

    The 1st couple of teams who came to fit the windows were also the ones who reccommended that we pack up as much of the house as possible due to the mess that would be caused by the installation.

    I had to take off holiday at work due to the on going discussions that I was having with Anglian reps. All I intended to do was let them in and then get out of their way and go to work!

    Problems do happen and to be honest I usually expect complications to occur due to the line of business that I am in, but I don’t expect to be treated by Anglian as if they are doing me a favour by fitting the windows.

    It would seem from the feedback received that I should have just let them complete part of the job, hand over my money and then wait for them to come back at their convenience to complete the job.
    Who in their right mind would do this?

    This is an expensive process for us and to hand over 1,000’s of £ for incomplete work is not something that I would ever consider, especially based on the reputation of the industry and nature of the work being carried out.

    I have no doubt that Anglian offer a good product and a generally good service (complaints relating to them away from this site are relatively few and far between), but when things do go wrong, I don’t expect to be the only one put out by their mistakes.

    For your information when I called the sales rep, his first response was that he completely agreed with my position. His next line was that it had nothing further to do with him…….

  385. SW London Anglian Rep

    I think if you had a builder doing a job in several stages it would be most unusual NOT to part-pay for the job at each stage of completion. Anglian do the same with Conservatories.

    Sounds like everything worked out pretty reasonably anyway.

  386. Paul K

    Reading all about after service provided by Anglian, I’ll never touch them. I was in the market for doors and windows and I wont bother to call Anglian for a quote even if they do it for free. Thanks

  387. Bikefast

    Having now received three quotes for windows installation from the salesman I visited one of the showrooms to see the products and asked the assistant there if I could have a couple of names and addresses of recently completed jobs so that we could have a decco to see how they looked for appearance and workmanship. The response was: well, the standard of work is so varied as not all of the workers are paid the same rate per window–he mentioned the actual rates–but the highest was 70% more than the lowest.

    How can one be certain of the quality of work as it would appear that the lowest paid cannot be of the same quality as the highest. How can one determine what quality of team one is going to get on acceptance of a quote. Don’t forget, I am not the one saying the workmanship is or will be different, “he” did.

  388. Skinny

    We have recently had a Conservatory fitted by Anglian. The quality of the materials is very good. The builders/fitters etc. were also very good, but anyone above this level was a dead loss!

    They were due to start on a Monday. My wife called them the Friday before to double check that it was all still going ahead, to be told that they couldn’t start until the following Thursday. When my wife asked exactly when they were going to tell us, if she hadn’t called, they said that they like to leave it as late as possible before telling the customer they can’t make the scheduled time! I have never heard such rubbish in my life!

    We were promised by the salesperson that the build would be project managed end-to-end. This was not the case. The builders finished and the site manager disappeared. We had no contact from anyone until the framers just turned up with no notice at all. Luckily there was someone in to let them in.

    When the site was marked out, they put the conservatory about 12″ away from where we’d already agreed it would go. I asked the builders why, and they said that it was how their drawings had been done. I questioned the site manager and he said that this had been changed ages ago, and we had already been told. Needless to say, we hadn’t. This resulted in a drain cover inside the conservatory being 12″ away from where it should have been, in plain view, rather than tucked away where we could have hidden it ( as recommended by the salesperson).

    We were advised by the salesperson that Cosyfloor would be fine to install if we wanted the flooring tiled. Everyone else (builders, site manager for the builders etc.) said that we needed a screed floor if we were having tiles. More cost to us to get the screed floor. The salesperson actually stood in our garden with the site manager/builders/his manager and said that Cosyfloor would be fine, while everyone else around him said that it wouldn’t. Screed floor was quite a lot more expensive,

    The surveyor came to measure up said that an outside tap needed to be moved and told us exactly where it needed to be moved to. The builders turned up and said that the revised location was not right and the tap had to be moved again. More cost to us.

    The electrician said that he couldn’t run the cables were we wanted them because of some regulations and the only thing to do would be to put the cables on the surface of the wall and get the wall plastered (which we didn’t intend to do.) This was after all of this had been checked by other Anglian employees and they said it would be okay. More cost to us.

    The salesman made a huge fuss out of saying that we wouldn’t have to pay anything until we were happy with the job. The framers broke one of the windows while fitting them, and another had been made the wrong size, so they had to fill the gap with wood before they left. Then they handed my wife an official Anglian envelope with “Please pay the fitters” printed on it in big red letters, and they demanded payment. Luckily, she’s not the type to be bullied, so she told them that they weren’t getting any money until we were happy with the job. (Friends of ours had an Anglian conservatory fitted a few weeks before ours. They returned home to find that the wrong design windows had been fitted. They paid most of the money and are still waiting 4 months later to have the correct windows fitted! I wonder if it would have been any different if they hadn’t paid any money to all to the framers!)

    All this time, any communication with Anglian was like pulling teeth. We lost count of the number of messages we left which were never returned. Also, on the odd occasion they did return a message (which said, “I’m not at home, so please call me on my mobile, xxxxx”) they returned the call to our home number!

    Strangely, when we started ignoring their messages (when we withheld part payment because we weren’t happy with the job) they managed to call us every day, sometimes 2 or 3 times per day!

    We still haven’t paid in full, as we’re not happy with all of the extra expense we’ve occurred (plumbers, changing the flooring, plastering) along with the extra days off work we had to take because of their inability to communicate clearly with us. We’ve told the local Anglian guys that we’re not happy with all of this and we want some sort of compensation. We’re written to Alex Nutt at the head office (recorded delivery, of course). This was over 3 months ago, and we’ve heard nothing from Anglian (local or head office) since. Not surprising really, as the people we were in touch with (occasionally!) probably have no idea what’s going on.

  389. Russell

    Yes it’s another SUPREMOGLAZE one.
    they called me about a year ago saying I could have a free no obligation quote for a conservatory (after we discussed windows, doors and all the other stuff I ALREADY had)
    I told the lady I wasnt ready for a quote but they could call me back in 6 months, they did!
    Yes they called me on Aug 1, Aug 8, Aug 15, Aug 22, Sep1, Sep 10, Sep 18, etc!
    When she called me last week and asked how If I wanted another free, no obligation quote blah blah blah, I said and I quote, “I am not ready to take a quote yet, as I explained to to colleague last week, the week before that, the week before that and the week before that!!!!!! At which point she hung up.
    Wonder if that is the end of it?
    I doubt it!!!

  390. scuba

    i use to be a area manager for anglian and everest i now work with national builders the fact of this when a sales man arives he is thinking a thousand pound a window if you have 10 thats 10 thousand pounds then the company speach comes you need to say i now its a good company and that you have done your home work if the rep says he needs to explaine tell him i want the best price no messing at the end of the day he will still earn £50 its very simple if you by cheap cheap it will not last long the company will fold and you have no come back i have read most of these on here and your all right but the only thing with these big companys is that they have been around for 40 years plus so they are still here ……. the only thing i can say is look very close at everything and if you sign at a price that you want make sure you check the windows before they are put in if you are not happy turn them away make sure all the bits are there and they take care with every thing they do

  391. midlands anglian connie rep

    The intelligent customer does their homework and shops aroud.there are comparable products on the market and as long as you ensure that the company has an insurance backed guarantee you will pick up a good product at a price that is better than the big three.

  392. Anglian nottingham guy

    The worst advice any sales person could possibly give to a costumer, shop around, my pen quite literally droped out my hand when i read that one!

    Anyway with regards to what Paul K has mentioned about service.
    please bear in mind anglian install around a thousand orders per week, and allthough our service is not 100% nothing is perfect. if you think of 50000 plus orders being installed a year and compare that with how many people actually have a complaint, Anglian turn out to offer a pretty excellent service. Yes i would agree that some people on here have a genuine problem but when ive asked most people, i would say 90% if i could be a help or give advice on there problem i would get e-mailed back “no thanks its all sorted now” There just too many folk out there who want a moa,. Or perhaps other sales reps or companys trying to harm the image of Anglian……

  393. Anglian nottingham guy

    By the way if anybody wants to check out Anglians Golden oak windows you can now see them on zenith staybrites home page as theyve stolen pics off Anglians website, what a company they cant even afford a decent company to design there website, thiefs.

  394. midlands anglian connie rep

    well anglian nottingham youre pen droped out of your hand because i suggested that a customer shopped around.Anglian have a good product but there are comparable products available on the market place at a fraction of the Anglian cost. Anglian dont even do the Pilkington Active self clean roof. Good locals do!!Yes i am a dis olusioned Anglian rep only because they are so damned expensive and insist on peddling their outrageous finance package.

  395. Maybe an Anglian Customer

    Had the Anglian rep around. Very interested. Product seems good. Solaglass roof etc. Is there anything comparable out there? I need a conservatory I can use 365 days of the year. Not to be roasted in summer and freezing in winter. Sales rep wants 15grand (after all published discounts) for a 3 metre by 3 meter with french doors and two little window openers. Am I paying over the odds, if so by how much? Also do they just offer VAT off etc in Autumn andnot other times of year? If so why?

  396. Guy Carberry

    I just got a 4×9 conservatory for £15k. There are little window openers all round and french doors. Tricept frame and K-glass. So maybe you are paying over the odds?

  397. SW London Anglian Rep

    I’m not a conny rep but I know the design has a large bearing on the price – how much brickwork, basework, drainage, type of roof design etc.

    As for the “VAT” thing – it’s a marketing promotion. The Exchequer hasn’t suddenly made conny’s VAT exempt for the winter, it’s just Anglian reduce the price by 15% (equivalent of the 17.5% added to the lower non-vat price).

  398. Maybe an Anglian Customer

    Thanks for the responses.
    We suspect the house is on a raft. So the cost quoted assumes that and the associated work. Dwarf wall. Edwardian style conservatory.

  399. midlands anglian connie rep

    Maybe Anglian customer
    you dont say what area you are but go onto the web sites and look for celsius performance glass. youre Eddie in this should be about 11-12k

  400. alex

    hi
    We had a conservatory installed by anglian using solarglass 4 years ago. Our conservatory is 4 meters by 5 and a half meters and is wooden. We got a free fitted laminate floor and paid £26.5K. We didnt ask for discount but got etched glass free worth £1800 (apparently!)My dad had the same but in upvc (white) and paid £21K. These prices are 4 years old and we paid cash. we have french doors (my dad has 3 sets) and full length windows of which 6 open. The glass was fitted incorrectly and we are still awaiting to have them refitted (2 years later) this is due to the wooden conservatories being very rare and the staff not having the knowledge needed to fit them. We also have 2 large radiators connected to our combi boiler and the heating is switched on 24hrs a day using thermostatic valves. We use the conservatory like the rest of the house and it has NEVER been cold even when it has been minus 6 outside. It DOES get to hot in summer, but i am very bad at coping with heat. I would recommend getting as many opening windows as possible. ours are opposite each other to allow a draft through. My husband is desperate to get an air con unit and my dad has one, but out of the 4 years we have had our conservatory it has probably been unbearable for 5-6 weeks which i dont think is too bad out of 200 weeks. although to be fair we had a rubbish summer this year! We have sofa beds in ours and we love to lie on them on really sunny days in february when it is cold outside but really sunny and the conservatory is really warm. finally the glass roof is fab for bonfire night when you can watch all the fireworks in the sky. I have friends with the “plastic” roof and their conservaries seem very dark. Also the solarglass has a slight blue tint which makes it feel like it is a sunny day even when it isnt. if you would like some pictures send me your email address and I will forward them to you. alex

  401. Maybe an Anglian Customer

    Thanks ‘midlands anglian connie rep’ and alex for your responses here (and offer of photos alex). Both very helpful and I think we now have some really good information, coupled with the earlier responses, on which to make our decision. We have an independent installer due to visit us for another quote, plus another visit planned from the Anglian rep. Will let you know what we decide and hopefully give some updates as appropriate…

  402. anglian nottingham guy

    dear midlands connie rep, to begin i dont believe for the slightest second youre currently a representative for anglian, possibly in the past but certainly not now, maybe youre trying to harm the image of anglian, i dont know??
    may i start by informing any prospective costumer who has read his nonsense, that all double glazing salespeople are on a commision only basis, normally £50 an order upwards. so after reading midlands anglian conny reps comments i ask myself why? why would you suggest a costumer shops about, because if they purchase elsewhere then youve earned nothing so why? i know why because your not a rep for anglian and more like a rep for another company, possibly a discruntled local company.
    i dont sell conservatorys but ive recently had my mums 9 year old conservatory installed by a local firm replaced with a PVCu anglian edwardian unit, the previous company has changed names in order to cease any active warranties.
    facts are anglian offer the best value for money, youll get cheaper, youll even get more expensive but yo. wont get better quality.
    fact anglian are the only company to hold a BBA(british_board_of_agrement)for a complete PVCu conservatory.
    the self cleaning glass is ok but instead of cleaning the glass you have to clean the plastics, and what happens when a bird poos’ on it?? does the roof wipe itself clean?
    as regards to anglians finance package i cant say much as im FSA compliant, Anglian windows ltd are authorised and regulated by the financial services authority for mortgage and insuarnce activities and are the only home improvements company who are, so when it comes down to the prospects demands and needs i as a representative can utilise the personal illustration form to establish there demands and needs, this way being FSA compliant i cant misell finance to anybody, and if i did even i would be gonned immediantly. furhter information can be found on http://www.anglianhome.co.uk
    ta

  403. Peter

    Weatherseal/Supremoglaze

    Their salesmen are rogues. They lie like mad. Their product migh be good but they are like Klingons.

    Let them into your home at your peril. They will not leave until you threaten to call the police.

    Basildon branch seems to employ ex KGB staff

  404. anglian nottingham guy

    ZENITH SYARBRITE WENT BUST YESTERDAY

  405. SW London Anglian Rep

    My understanding is that Zenith Staybrite have been bought out by Latium, that also own Spectus.

    I believe Weatherseal may also be part of this group of companies.

  406. SW London Anglian Rep

    Addendum to that:-

    I believe they were already in the hands of the administrators and that Latium have therefore bought the brand name and may continue to market products under the Zenith brand.

    I would not be suprised if current Zenith customers may had trouble claiming anything under their guarantees.

  407. marcia

    Anyone else ever taken out Anglian extended warrenty policy “Anglian Home Improvements Guarentee Plus”?

    I’ve had this policy for over 5 years and never claimed – this year I’ve had to claim and I’ve had no end of problems getting anglian to actually do any work on the door – at the moment my family is accessing and exiting my terraced property via the window – me – i’m imprisoned in the house as I’m currently on crutches and due for an operation. I’ve had visits from Anglian operatives but still to no avail – has anyone else had any problems with claiming on this policy?

  408. SW London Anglian Rep

    When you say “no end of problems” we’re actually only 22 days into “this year”.

    They’ve already been out to look at it and may well have ordered a re-make, which will take weeks, not days, to arrive.

    If you send me the details (i.e approx date of original order, your surname, PLUS the job reference number OR your postcode and house number) I’ll look into it for you, if you feel things are taking longer than you had hoped.

    Anglian@blueyonder.co.uk

  409. alex

    hi Marcia. We did not take out the extended warrenty but we have a wooden conservatory with a 5 yr guarantee and as everything was incorrectly installed it started to rot. We started the process over a year ago (which included writing to the md) and a we still havent finished! both of the french doors needed replacing and as one was broken on delivery they have been back out a total of 3 times to measure it and re order it. I have asked for an extension to the guarantee but was passed on the the customer care director who still hasnt confirmed either way. We spent £26k on this conservatory and it has been a total NIGHTMARE!!!!!! alex

  410. anglian nottingham guy

    I agree with sw london guy, ive never heard of these problems in my region!!
    send him the details youve requested and hell sort it out for you, costumer service comes first at anglian, that why were the most reccomended company in the industry.
    cheers

  411. Tony

    Anglian Nottingham Guy –

    Try putting Anglian and complaints into google and then tell me Anglian rate customer service as their priority.

    You must be a wind up surely.

  412. anglian nottingham guy

    if you put anglian windows compliants into a google search, then do an advanced search after to get rid of all the advertisement jargon and other meaningless rubbish youll find that anglian have 512 complaints,this is for telemarketing, people who once worked for anglian, our installations, our finance and our service. anglian have over 1.5 million costumers in the uk the majority of which have come in the past decade and half. the first complaint was registered in 1984. so working on the principel of 512 out of 1.5 million costumers the complaint rate is 0.034%. thats 1 out of every 2950 costumers complaining. thats a dam good rate!!! obviously in this world nobodys perfect, not me and not you nobody! but when i try my bloody hardest to offer a 100% costumer satisfaction rating, following up all my installations it annoys me when twits come on here moaning and going over the top. if id spent money on a car, a tv anything and it wasnt right i wouldnt make phone calls, id go and see the person responsible for dealing with my issues in person. all ill say is with over 1000 costumers ive got no complaints, i often get letters thanking me for my advice etc and in my region i think weve had 1 comaplint in the years ive been at anglian.
    the other thing is that on sites like this other companys use it to slag anglian off and pretend to be suffering costumers, in years ive been using this site, anybody who ive offered help and advice regarding there problems havnt responded??? whys that i wonder, perhaps theyre genuine or perhaps theyre going over the top or are other comapnys exploiting the website..

  413. Tony

    Alex, Your reply was very hard to read and understand fully but my opinion at the end of it is that you are very blinkered with regards Anglian. Passionate but very blinkered!

  414. anglian nottingham guy

    Blinkered isnt even a word my good friend, anyway if you have problems then email me your house number and post code…

  415. alex

    Sorry guys if you misunderstood. I had a £26K wooden conservatory built 5 years ago. Glass roof etched glass, the works. The glass was NOT fitted as per the instructions of the wood manufacturer, and therefore 3 years later the back doors started to rot. I have spent 2 years chasing this, partly because our local (stockport) office moved to yorkshire and back and each time they “Lost” our information. I have been in touch with your head office Managing director (Mr Alex McNutt) who passed me on to Barry Chilvers Deputy Director of customer services Who in may 2007 said he would fix it. Part of the work has been re done part hasnt. BUT as it is a wooden conservatory I should only have a 5 yr guarentee and I have asked for an extention as the whole thing has been incorrectly fitted for 4 years in total. I am very passionate about this as the money used to build the conservatory was money my mother left when she passed away and is a “special” room in our house. I am indeed a “real” person and can forward you my photos of the whole conservaroy and its rotten doors if that helps you to take me seriously. Regards mrs alex norton

  416. marcia

    The reason I’ve not accepted the help offered to me on this site is that I’m not in the habit of giving out my personal details or details that can lead them to my door to blokes on websites who say that they might be able to help!! sorry call me stupid but that just the kinda girl I am….

    Yes London Anglian rep – I did make a mistake re the duration of my problem it stated last November – not justthis year as stated previously (it’s justthatthe stuff this year is causing me greatest frustration.)

    It’s clear to me that you are not willing to listen to any legitimate complaints about your company – and simply wish to give your corporate propaganda an airing. Your approach to customer service seems to be best reflected as “if the customer has a problem – then the customer is blinkered” All I’ve ever wanted was a service i’ve paid for…and the abilty to walk through my own front door like a human being – lofty ideals I know, but you know what I think i’m worth it!! I wonder how understanding you would be if it were your family having to act in this way because your company doesn’t consider it’s important enough to act!!

  417. alex

    Marcia I totally agree!!!!!

    I personally went on this website to warn other people about the difficult time I have had with Anglian. Taking days off work moving furniture around and then the work men not turning up. We had 5 visits last yr and 1 already this yr and still it is not done! I have paid for a product and all I want is what I have paid for!

  418. marcia

    Nottingham guy – it’s quite clear you are unwilling to hear any complaints against your company even lagitimate ones – i’ve not accepted London anglian guy’s offer of assistance because i’m not in the habit of sending my personal details to blokes on the web who say they can help – might sound stupid to a macho man like you but for a girl like me it’s a no brainer!! If i were minded to being cynical I could assume that you anglian guys count on that knowing that I’d be unwilling to provide my details to an unverified male, located god knows where – so you can then through your vile accusations around and tarnish legitimate customers as competitors. Shame on you!!

    You may well consider it approapriate that my family has to crawl through windows to acces/exit my property or indeed that i cannot leave my home until the issue is resolved but I believe I have the RIGHT to enter my abode via a door – somewhat lofty ideals you might say but you know what…I believe I’m worth it – regardless of the second class life style you might wish me to gratefully accept – i dont want anything more that what I have paid for – your company was happy to take my money when I didn’t request any services now try being novel and actually deliver services now!!

  419. Tony

    Sorry my last post was intended for Anglian Nottingham Guy NOT Alex.

    Following on . . .

    Blinkered not a word lol. You should check your posts and then tell me what are words and what are not, especially your spellings!

    Anglian Nottingham Guy also thinks that ALL Anglian complaints are posted on the internet. Blinkered indeed.

    As for you helping me and indeed you are in my region, I’m afriad you can’t. I was one of the lucky ones and had bad service from the outset which inturn has meant no Anglian rep has entered my house nor have I parted with a single penny.

    Researching the company now and I really must thank you for treating badly from the start otherwise I would be like hundreds of others complaining of poor service, poor craftmanship and poor attitude!

  420. top sales rep (anglian)

    hello my friends!

    First off Mr Basher is not quite right in a few things!
    This price of £450 is bull it could be cheaper than that maybe £300 or £700(ps remember each unit in a bay is one window).
    Next off if a letter comes back asking for more money from a well known double glazing company asking for money it means quite simply you got it too cheap we will make no profit on it pls pay more or have your deposit back!

    I am a young sales rep and consider myself honest the problem is every time i give people the bottom line price straight away you do not belive me! i dont care who you are! greed on the customer behalf will always ask for a little bit more even if its a pound.Now ive just given the person the best price we can offer and guess what you dont belive me(you leave me no choice).

    What people dont realise is that window sales men are compltley comission based they pay there own petrol, phone bill etc.

    Now if a sales man decides to go lower than the actuall selling price his comission drops heavy and quite simply if he offers you it for peanuts then guess what he/she makes jack! so why on earth should WE do that unless you are willing to commit on the night because i really cant be bothered to drive 50 miles to come back to make peanuts(would you)? ps i would really like you to answer that question

    Rember keep buying x x x

  421. reps before me ?W. Midlands?

    yep its the same new rep on this web site the last post by ,top sales rep, was reffering to the post in 2004 now read up to date stuff!

    Any way this is going out to Sw rep and the rest of them brilliant idea for getting new orders! to be fair i agree with what you true anglian reps have said! eeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr what am i going to do now!

    Answer! to any customers in the Midland area who need help with there orders (lets just say me and the admin girl are close) pls post in my new name ‘The Helper’

  422. The Helper

    Yep i can see this isnt going to take off as fast as i had planned so i guess its back to selling windows for £50 a hit to all you hard nose customers! (dont forget the 2 percent finance ill make off you Ha ha ha)

    No seriously if i was you i would buy anglian because if you think weve stiched you then Go and Buy Bent BOBs windows and let them fit it for you as well(Its Free Fitting).

    Once you have done this! and you can still ‘honestly’ moan about our product and service is terrible then and only then will i belive some of these claims.

    Oh yea reffering back to the women who said field reps arent sales men. Love thats very sweet but very dumb in fact it made me laugh out loud!

    True selling my love is ‘ If a man goes out on a lead and doesnt SELL he/she makes nothing £0 ZERO

  423. SW London Anglian rep

    Seemed like a brilliant idea – help people out and possibly be rewarded with future business having shown a degree of professionalism and integrity.

    However, it appears the majority of people posting on here simply wish to moan and no-one has actually taken up an offer of help, not from myself anyway. This leads me to suspect that at least a few of these posts are from competitors posing as disgruntled customers, which is a shame for the those with genuine grievances as it tars them with the same brush of suspicion.

  424. Keith - Littlehampton

    I have read with interest many of the reviews on this site with regards Anglian and to be honest it did concern me greatly, at first hand it does appear that Anglian suffer with bad customer service.
    Well I have recently ordered double glazing through Anglian and through this site I will be quite happy to publish my experiences.

    My windows are being fitted tomorrow.

    The order was placed about 6 weeks, the surveyor came about 3 weeks ago. the price I paid for 8 windows and 2 doors £5,000… some will tell you that I paid too much, but from experience I see each door would cost me about £800 to supply and fit and each window about £450… so I think I have a good deal. Yes we did play the game of “call my manager” twice, but I knew what I wanted to pay before the salesman turned up, if he could not reach my target, then I was not going to sign…. simple really.
    Yes I am concerned about the fitters, I will be home tomorrow to watch what they do and to make sure things are progressing as I would have expected… my problem, I have to work Friday, so will not be home until 5pm..I am concerned that there will be a problem on Friday… but I will quite happily report back onto this site my experiences… good or bad.

  425. Tony

    I hope you all saw Watchdog on Monday 14th April.

    Most recommended company, not anymore!

  426. Maybe an Anglian Customer

    OK, back at last. We signed up in November 2007 for Anglian in the end for our 3Metre * 3Metre conservatory at £15k. We paid our deposit of £500 and all went pretty quiet except for a couple of bits of paperwork. Mid to late January builder installed the base and dwarf walls, couple of weeks later installers arrived and within 3 days we had a conservatory. It is early days, but it does everything it said on the tin! So in summary about £5k more than a quote from what seemed like a good independent builder but we preferred the Anglian glass and plastic quality etc (we also had some silly quotes over the phone by the way, but were not tempted). The Anglian builders and installers tidied up after themselves. Have since had a query about the guttering and they were responsive. Have a 15 year guarantee on everything (brickwork, base etc., plus glass units) but of course hope it is never needed. Pricy, but the product is probably worth it if you plan to stay put for a few years. For us, so far so good. We are very pleased with the finished product and would recommend the investment for the quality and for the wide ranging guranteed if you plan to keep the property for a few years.

  427. SW London Anglian Rep

    The Watchdog program doesn’t sound especially bad. With so many installations being done it would be amazing if we didn’t get a few wrong and maybe one or two spectacularly so.
    What’s important to realise is that we will still be in business to rectify these faults even if we are a little slow about it in some parts of the country, or have to make one or more repeat visits.

    Keith,

    If you’re concerned about the quality of your fit bear in mind you won’t be parting with any more money until you have signed a satisfaction note after a careful inspection of the work.
    Also, one of the things Alex McNutt introduced was something called a “hand-over sheet” which is a check-list of things that the fitter goes through with the customer after a job has been completed.

  428. ex employee

    Interesting comments!!

    If you think their customer service and selling tech’s are bad you should be on the receiving end of their staff welfare programme. Shocking!